HEALING THE GRIEVING HEART
Getting Through the Holidays Without Your Spouse
Hosts:? Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Heidi Horsley
With guest:? Linda Della Donna
December 20, 2007
G:? ?Hello.? I?m Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host
H:? ?Dr. Heidi Horsley.
G:?Each week Heidi and I welcome you to Healing The Grieving Heart, a show of hope and conversation with those who?ve suffered the loss of a loved one and for health care professionals who work in this most difficult field.? As always the message is others have been there before you and made it, you can, too.? You need not walk alone.? This is a pre-recorded show so you won?t be able to call in to Heidi and me today but please send us information to www.thegriefblog.com.? We love to hear your comments about the holidays, what?s going on for you, pictures of your kids, if you?ve got recipes, whatever you?ve got during this holiday season, please send it, and please go in and make comments, too, on other people?s information that they send in.? People love it.? We love to get that information.? I?m also going to write something for the blog about the holidays and the loss of a child and so that should be on the blog right now, too.? Well, Heidi, good morning.
H:?Morning, Mom.
G:?Boy, we?re really close to the holidays with this show.
H:?Yeah, we are, I?m feeling it.
G:?Yeah.? It?s really kind of a stressful time even for we people who are out what, 24 years now Heidi?
H:?Yeah.
G:?We had the worldwide candle lighting at our house last night.? It was a wonderful event.? We had about 50 people there and we all lit candles and had a special moment and a thought for our children.? And I would suggest that if you weren?t able to join a candle lighting that you have your own candle lighting.? Wouldn’t you, Heidi?
H:?Yeah, it?s powerful.? I had my own and I know it was about two weeks ago because we?re doing a pre-record today, but I just lit a candle in my bedroom by myself and just thought about everybody around the world that was lighting their candles at the same time.
G:?Yeah, it?s a powerful thing.? We were also able to go in on the Internet and log in and write some information on www.thecompassionatefriends.com website which was very touching.? And I suggest that if you?re having a stressful time right now, one of the things Heidi and I always say to remember is that Christmas is only one day if that?s your celebration or whatever your holiday is.? It?s one day and oftentimes the anticipation is worse in the holidays, isn?t it, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely.? I hear people say that over and over and I?ve found the same.? The few days leading up to it is so stressful because you feel how emotional you’re going to be on Christmas Day and usually once the day happens, it?s not as bad while you?re in it as you thought it was going to be.
G:?Absolutely.? Well, we?ve got a great guest today, Linda Della Donna, and we?re going to be talking about “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse.”? And again we know it is so difficult particularly during that first year.? It?s a really tough year and do remember our first year, Heidi?
H:?I don?t.? It was such a fog and I think I was just trying to survive it, but I don?t have a lot of memories, and I am excited to have Linda on because she has so many great tips on how to get through the holidays.
G:?Yeah.? I think, Heidi, the key thing that you just said is right.? We don?t have a lot of memories of the first year.? I don?t either and that?s one of the points I wanted to make.? You?re on autopilot and our hearts go out to you.? It?s a year of getting through it.
H:?Absolutely.?
G:?So do you want to introduce Linda for us?
H:?Sure, I?d love to.? Our guest today is Linda Della Donna, and our topic is “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse.”? Linda Della Donna is a freelance writer who supports new widows through the grief process.? A graduate of the Institute of Children?s Literature and School of Hard Knocks, she writes about death, dying and cancer and shares ways to turn an upside-down smile right side up again.? She writes from the heart.? Her blog http://griefcase.blogspot.com/ is written especially for widows and dedicated to Edward Sclier.? Della Donna makes her home 20 miles north from where the World Trade Center used to be and wants every widow to know we?re not alone.? Welcome to the show, Linda.
L:?Oh, thank you so much, Heidi.? Thank you, Gloria.? It?s very nice to be here.? I?m very honored and I really appreciate the words you speak especially about being in a fog that first year.? How well I know that one.
G:?Yeah, could you talk a little bit about your experiences?? I mean you have written so much information for widows it?s amazing.? I was just going through it all but it?s really wonderful and could you tell us how you came to this point of writing about widows?
L:?Well, my husband and I were very close.? I didn?t have a good marriage.? I had a great marriage, and life with Ed was one big date, and when I lost him, it was really, really a void in my life that I didn?t expect to be upset about it and I thought I would be okay with it and for a little while I was okay.? But it was just denial and that first year was just struggling to cope.? The second year was really worse.? I hate to say it, but when people say oh, the first year is always the hardest, that?s really erroneous to tell someone that.? It?s going to be hard for a long time.
H:?And Linda, I think it?s good for people that are in the second year to hear that because sometimes you wonder what is wrong with me and that?s so much harder.
L:?It?s so true and there?s no right way and there?s no wrong way to mourn.? There is only your way and everyone is different and each grief, each mourning is as different as a thumbprint and there are no two alike and it?s important for everyone to realize that.
G:?Now your Ed died of cancer, right?
L:?Yes, he did.
G:?And was he ill for a while?
L:?He was ill a very short time and until this point in my life I was never able to verbalize it or write about it to anyone.? I always kept that very private and I almost was afraid to come on the air this morning to discuss it because it was so private.? But it?s wonderful that I am finally at a point in my life where I can honestly say without bursting into tears, yes, Edward was sick.? He was diagnosed.? We had no idea he was sick.? I was his wife.? I had no inkling.? He was seeing doctors.? He was taking vitamins.? He was a very healthy, virile man.? He was working.? We were making plans to go to Hong Kong.? We were making plans to go to Costa Rica.? We were living our lives and he was on a business trip and he had a swelling in his neck.? He didn?t know what it was and when he came home and went to the doctor, there were some tests and very shortly after he was diagnosed with a stage 3 adenocarcinoma, esophageal cancer.? And I knew it was the end.? I knew it was the beginning of the end.? It was inoperable.? The tumor was at the junction between the stomach to his esophagus and the day we got the news I remember sitting at the end of his bed in the hospital looking out into the window.? It was a snowy day and all I could think was, and I said it out loud, oh, my God, what will happen to me??
G:?Linda, do you have any children?
L:?I have a grown boy.? He was ? Well, he?s 32 now so he was out on his own at the time, but I was all alone, and I was just struck and then I realized.? I looked over at my husband at the other end of the bed and I realized I had nothing to complain about.? He was the one who was dying.
H:?You?re making such a good point.? When somebody dies, it?s just frightening for the people they leave behind.
L:?Right.
H:?Like you said, what will happen to me and how will my life look without Ed in my life?
L:?That?s right.? But what I did was, I took his hand, and we were so close.? I said, don?t worry.? You are not going through this alone.? We will get through this together.? And unfortunately the diagnosis and the treatment, the treatment was very difficult.? It couldn?t help him.? There was just 96 hours of these very, very rich chemicals and they were all treatments in the hospital and they had to be given 96 hours apart.? If anyone knows anything about chemo, it kills all the cells.? It just doesn?t go after the bad cells.
G:?What was your hospital experience like?? Did you find people supportive?
L:?Well, people are supportive but then there are those ? I found angels.? A woman out of nowhere became my friend.? She had been a widow and she lent me the best support.? She was there for me throughout the ordeal.? Ed died within less than six months after his diagnosis.
G:?Wow, that?s amazing.
L:?He was diagnosed December 30th and on May 1st he was dead.
G:?So you felt that the doctors and the people there, did they help you and how did they treat a woman whose husband is dying?
L:?It?s very difficult.? Everyone is different.? There was one doctor at a very well-known big-name hospital and he?s a well-known man.? He had difficulty.? No one likes to lose a patient and that man was not kind to me, and I had difficulty with one doctor and it was very bad.
G:?Now what did you do?? Did you have some anger about after Ed died because you –
L:?It?s very interesting.? I didn?t have anger.? I was filled with love and happiness.? He had died in my arms on our wedding anniversary so I was filled with this immense love.? I was just filled with joy and love, but after a time the empty chair that you see every day, it hits after when you have to go to the grocery store and there?s no one to push the carriage with you.
H:?And also you?re buying food for one person now.
L:?Exactly.? And I was buying food for two people for a long time.
H:?I know.? My mom talked about that a lot.
L:?It was very hard.
G:?It?s very sad when you think about what they like.? Did you end up with anything in the refrigerator that you realized that he ate and you didn?t?
L:?For years I sat.? I realized that I sat and waited for him to come home.? I had to really work hard at learning that I?m in a new life now.
G:?Now what about paying the bills and all that?
L:?Oh, that?s horrendous.? I urge all widows please immediately, as soon as you possibly can, get all your papers together and get to an accountant.? Put everything out and try to figure out where you are.? You must learn immediately.? If you cannot balance a checkbook, learn.? If you?re deficient in adding or multiplying, get to a basic math class.? You can even do it online if you?re unable to go out.
G:?That?s a really hard thing, isn?t it, Linda, because you have trouble computing after that kind of a loss, adding numbers.
L:?I was so ? And we all make mistakes.? I made very, very, very costly mistakes and I was aware that I could make them and I still made them.
G:?And how about financial decisions?
L:?Financial decisions, my advice is this.? If you don?t know what to do, do nothing and wait.
G:?And watch out for people that are there to scam you
L:?Oh, be very careful.
G:?Absolutely.
L:?Do nothing without first thinking about it twice.
G:?And maybe have some trusted advisors.
L:?Yes, but I advise you get an accountant, get someone trusted, and it?s wise not to seek a family member.? It?s important that your financial status be confidential so you can make straight decisions.
G:?Okay, I?ll take that back, don?t find a family member.? Find an accountant, I like that.? Well, it?s time for us to go to break now, and our topic is “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse,” and our guest is Linda Della Donna.? The show is pre-recorded today so you won?t be able to call in.? I?m your host, Dr. Gloria Horsley, with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.? I wanted to remind you that all of our shows are archived on our website, www.thegriefblog.com as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.com website.? And we have shows from the past couple of years about getting through the holidays so if you want to run through our shows and check those out, you can listen to those past shows.? So please stay tuned to more.? We?ll be talking about the holidays without your spouse.
Well, Linda, when we went to break we were talking about your wonderful husband dying of esophageal cancer and some of your experiences with the hospital and that kind of thing.? But let?s move on a little bit to talking about the holidays and giving those widows information and thoughts.? What thoughts do you have?? We?re so close to Christmas and do you have some suggestions?
L:?Well, a bereavement group is always good.? It?s not that misery likes company.? I believe that there?s quality and strength in number and when you get with people who have been through a recent loss, it?s supportive.? You don?t even have to talk.? Everybody is in the same boat and it?s easier to get through it.? I say get out.? Go to a movie.? If that isn?t good for you, maybe you can rent a movie and bring it in.? Last holiday I was really alone.? I had no one, but I was determined to get through the holiday and what I did was I volunteered my services with the Salvation Army and I stood on a street corner ringing a bell raising funds for the Army.
H:?I love that, Linda.
G:?Yeah, I do, too
H:?One of the things you say in your list of to-dos is exactly right.? Perform acts of loving kindness is the way to help others.
L:?Right.
H:?And I love how you say so that you?ll create new memories for yourself.
L:?It?s important to make a new memory because from now on you want to be able to look back next year on what you have instead of what you had.? And it?s important to grow, to use the death as a springboard, not as a crutch.
G:?I like that, as a springboard, not a crutch.? So you can talk about yourself being as a widow but that is a springboard, not a crutch.
L:?Yes, it?s important to move forward.? I don?t say move on because you don?t want to ever forget what you had, but it?s important to let go.? Otherwise you cannot move forward.
G:?Now what about holiday parties?
L:?Holiday parties, I say enjoy them.? Put a happy face on, paint your face lipstick red, do nice things for yourself, get a nice party dress out of your closet and go with a smile on.? You?d be surprised.? Your friends are going to be shocked and they?re the ones who are going to be uncomfortable, but you just smile and enjoy yourself.? And it?s breaking the ice because nobody knows what to say or do for you at this time so if you just help yourself, eventually everyone else will fall into place.
H:?And you know, Linda, a lot of the 911 widows that I?ve been working with for the last six years have said one of the hardest things about going to parties and getting out is that we live in such a couple world.
L:?Oh, I know.
H:?And that they have needed to find new friends so that they can go and do things with.
L:?That?s why I say join a bereavement group.? There?s also Internet sites.? I know of one that?s excellent and it?s in every state and part of the country that you can imagine and if you like I can even give you that.
G:?Yeah, why don?t you give us that.? It?s on the Internet, right?
L:?Yes, it is.? It?s www.meetup.com.? And www.meetup.com, if you like to sew, there?s a group of people who will get together and sew with you.? If you like to go to the opera, there?s a group of people who will go to the opera.? If you?re dying to go out for dinner, there are a group of people who will go out to dinner with you and you?re not alone.? You?re not with anyone and it?s not all couples.? For my birthday last year, I wanted to do something special and went to www.meetup.com and there was a barbecue in my area on my birthday.? So there were 400 people at this event so all I could think at the end of the day was thank you everyone for helping me celebrate my birthday.? I had a wonderful time.? I won a three-legged race.? It?s important to get out there.? You?re your own best friend and you must find what?s good for you and do it.
G:?Now were you able to do that the first year, Linda?
L:?The first year I will honestly say like you and Heidi, I don?t have much memory.? I got through it and I don?t think I could do very much the first year.? I was like a robot just going through the motions and I remember going out on my birthday the first year.? My son took me out on a boat ride.? All I wanted to do was go home.? I just wanted to be alone.
G:?So those are normal feelings.
L:?Yes.
G:?If people are feeling that way and you?re not saying you?ve got to do www.meetup.com right now if it’s been a month or two.
L:?Yeah, and as a matter of fact, last year for the holiday, I?ll tell you what I did.? I volunteered my time.? I handed out gifts at Christmas Eve at the Salvation Army.? I baked brownies and brought them to a hospital ward and I gave them to the nurses.? These were people I don?t know, I will never see again, but it felt good to do something for a nameless, faceless, anonymous person and I just felt good about it.
G:?I love that, Heidi, a nameless, faceless, anonymous person.
H:?Yes, and I love all the volunteer work Linda is doing.? Did you just call the Salvation Army and call the hospitals, is that how you did it?
L:?And you know what?? I still hear from the Salvation Army.? They invite me.? I was just invited down to the city last week, I was at a luncheon celebrating their 60th anniversary.? And Sam Waterston was Master of Ceremonies and I was treated to a wonderful luncheon.
G:?That?s great.
L:?And as soon as I get over this cold, I plan to stand on another windy street corner and ring the bell again this year.
G:?I was thinking www.meetup.com has got to have a lot of activities going on during the holidays.
L:?And they even have groups for widows and widowers.? It gets you out.? It gets your feet wet.? And the other advice I have is learn from other widows.? When you get out there and you meet these other widows, learn from them.? If you see something that they?re doing that?s good and positive, learn from that.? If you see something that you really don?t like that they?re doing, learn from that also.? Adapt what is going to be good for you and will help you get through.? You don?t want to be a needy woman.? You want to be strong.? You want to be independent.? You want to be able to stand on your own two feet and be your own best friend.
G:?Well, I think that?s great advice for women.? What about families coming during the holidays?? Or going to their place?? Is that a difficult thing?
L:?Well, it is difficult.? It can be very difficult.? What happens is the first year they will look to be with you.? The second year they want to do their own thing and it?s important that you be strong and be able to take it.? And I guess it was last year, my son, he got married after my husband died.? He wanted to be with her family, which was fine.? I had no one so what I did was that day, believe it or not, I ordered a turkey dinner for ten people.? I set the table.? I lit the fireplace.? I played carols and I had a wonderful time.? I was with the dog, the cat, I opened up a photo album, and I looked through it and got some memories that I had from past Christmases and kind of communed with my dead husband.? I lit a candle.
H:?I love that ritual.
G:?Did you have a good cry?
L:?I had a very good cry.? And then after that I tell people.
G:?In between the main course and the dessert you had a good cry.
L:?I had this big turkey and it was set at a table and all the places were set and it was just fine.? It sounds crazy but you know what?? This is your time to be as crazy as you want.? You have a perfect excuse.? You?re in mourning and like I said, there?s really no right way or no wrong way.? Give yourself permission to mourn.
G:?That?s a great thought.
H:?Absolutely.
G:?That?s so important.
H:?Do you celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah or anything?
L:?Well, my husband was Jewish and we’re ecumenical.? I embrace all religions so we always had both and this year I?m celebrating Christmas.? I still light Hanukkah candles and there?s always a Hanukkah menorah lit in the house but I?m not going to synagogue this year.? This will be a first in a lot of years.
H:?And how many years has your husband been dead now?
L:?It will be three-and-a-half years.
H:?Three-and-a-half, so it hasn’t been very long.
L:?No, it hasn?t been long at all.? But I?ve grown so much and I worked so hard on myself and I can honestly say I?ve come full circle and I can honestly say that I?ve let go.? I talk to him now and then, but not as often as I used to.
G:?Now do you have any ritual way that you do that or do you just talk to him in your mind?? And do you ever write letters to him?
L:?Oh, I?ve written a lot of letters to Ed.? I?ve written a lot of letters and cards.? I remember for a long time I used to send a lot of cards and take them to the cemetery.? I did a lot of that.? Actually after he died I used to go to the cemetery every day.? And Sundays, we used to sit in bed and read the newspapers every Sunday and after he died in the summertime.? I used to go every Sunday with the New York Times and sit at the cemetery in a lawn chair with the dog.?
H:?I love that.
G:?I do, too.?
L:?And I got a nice tan and I got caught up on all my reading.? So yeah, it was my way of coming to terms with death because nobody knows and that?s the big thing, the question mark.? What?s happened to us?? And that?s a hard thing.? It?s a lot to process.? When somebody is not coming back ever again, it?s a hard thing to learn and it takes time for the mind, the brain to wrap itself around this.? It’s a process.
H:?Now what about your son, Linda?? I know you said you had a son.? Does he participate in these rituals with you?
L:?In the beginning, George had a harder — It took me awhile to understand that he was grieving, too.? I thought it was just me and one day I was moaning and crying and carrying on and he turned to me and he said, Ma, I miss Ed, too.? And until that moment it was like a sock in the face.? I realized, oh, my God, he?s grieving, too.? I was so wrapped up in my own grief, I didn?t realize my son, who keeps everything inside and doesn?t talk much about it, he was hurting, too.
G:?So he wasn?t with you during the holidays, right?
L:?Not this past holiday but now this year we?ll see each other but not on Christmas Day.
G:?And when will you see each other?
L:?Probably two days before Christmas or two days after.? I?m very busy this year.? I?m so busy now he calls and asks when I?m free.
G:?Good for you, Linda.?
L:?Yeah, he has to track me down.? I?ve grown a new life.? I often say, sometime when I wasn?t looking, I got a new life.? It?s exactly that.
G:?I?d like to talk about that a little bit more when we come back from break.? I also think we?re going to have a caller and one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about, Linda, is the fact that you were a young widow and how that is and how you feel about the word “widow” and what kind of connotations that brings up for you.
L:?Okay.
G:?We?re talking to Linda Della Donna and we?re talking about “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse.”? I?m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.? You can reach us through the blog, www.thegriefblog.com.? All of these shows are archived on the blog, and we have some holiday shows that we did around the holidays for the last couple of years so you can go through our archives and take a look and find one of those shows to listen to.? So please stay tuned for more.
Well, Linda, we?ve got a caller, Beverly.? Hi, Beverly.
B:?Hi, how are you doing?
G:?Good.? Beverly is someone I?ve known for some time whose husband also died and what I was fascinated about when you were talking about your husband, Ed, Linda, is Beverly?s husband also died of esophageal cancer.
L:?Oh, I?m so sorry, Beverly.? Hi, there.
B:?Hi.
G:?Now, Beverly, how long has it been for you?
B:?Steve died on February 19th of 2003 so it?s been four-and-a-half years, almost five years now.
G:?It?s a little longer than you, Linda.
L:?Oh.
G:?Now you guys were pretty young widows, right?
L:?I was 55 when my husband died.
B:?I was 46.
L:?Oh, gosh, I?m so sorry.
G:?But 55 is still young.
L:?Yes, I know.? I didn?t realize how young until it happened.
G:?Yeah.? I wanted for both of you, what about being a widow this young?? How was that?? Beverly, you want to say something about that?
B:?Well, I know that it was really hard for me to check that little box where it always says marital status.? For the longest time I kept checking married because I still felt married even though Steve was gone.? I didn?t feel like a widow and it was only in the last couple of years that I?ve been able to check widow and feel okay about that and I hope that at some point I?ll feel okay enough to check single because even though I?m a widow and Steve and I were married for 21 years and have two beautiful daughters, I don?t want to always define myself as a widow.? I know I?ll always be a widow, but I don?t want to feel like that?s the only definition of me.
G:?Yeah.? Linda, do you have a thought on that?
L:?Oh, when I went back to work shortly after my husband died, because I had retired, I had taken a package.? Our plan was to retire and live the good life.? I was going to write the great American novel and he was going to garden.? It turned out for me, I went back to work briefly and I remember having to fill out the application and there was no box for me.? I didn?t know who I was.? It said divorced, single, married, other and I guess oh, I?m other.? That was a kick in the teeth.? That?s when it started to hit.? I didn?t know what I was.? I had no idea what I was.? I didn?t know what a widow was.?
H:?So you didn?t know what your new identity was.
L:?No, I had no idea who.? That?s exactly right.? I had no idea who I was, what I was.? I didn?t know.? At that point I was very dizzy.
G:?And now you?ve met someone else, right?
L:?Oh, yes, oh, yes.? I?ve come full circle.? I know exactly who I am.
G:?And how about you, Beverly?? Are you dating?
B:?I?m not dating just because I haven?t had that opportunity with someone who I’d be interested in dating yet.? But I say yet because I would be very open to that at this point.? If you’d asked me that two years ago, I’d probably say I?m not really ready yet.? But I was listening to what Linda was saying earlier about how over the holidays it?s important for us to really be our own best friend and I found that in regard to how my friends and family treat us and treat me in specific, it?s really important for me to let them know what my expectations are and what my desires are because otherwise they?re kind of floundering and they don?t know do we want them to invite us and include us in their holiday plans or do we want to do something on our own.? So I found they really appreciate it when I say something like hey, the girls and I are scaling back this year and we decided rather than the big extravaganzas we used to have, we?re going to donate all of our Christmas giving to La Casa de Las Madres which is a shelter for women who were being abused and had to slink in the middle of the night with nothing but the clothes on their back and their children.? And when we did that, people were really happy because then they knew oh, they don?t have to sort of jump through hoops and take wild stabs in the dark at what we wanted to be included in.
G:? That?s great.? Well, Beverly, thank you for your Christmas ideas.? We?ve got a little bit of a connection problem so we?re going to buzz off from you and say thank you so much for calling in and we?ll talk a little bit more about some of the ideas that you?ve come up with.? Thank you.
H:?Thanks, Beverly.?
G:?Have a great Christmas.
H:?I think Beverley had a good point.? You need to tell people what your expectations are.? Sometimes we need to teach people how to be good grief support.
L:?That?s right.
G:?Yeah, Beverly was just saying that during the holidays she?s needed to tell her family what they were planning, what their ideas were so that the family could respond.
L:?It?s very good.
G:?And I also liked — she did the same thing you did.? She reached out and did something during Thanksgiving for some needy people.
H:?Right, for a battered women?s shelter.
L:?After my husband died, I went down south.? I volunteered for Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
G:?Oh, my gosh.
H:?I loved reading on your blog what you said about that ? how you were driving around and you were crying hysterically.
L:?Oh, yeah.? I would drive around and I was helping all these people and every so often I?d have to pull off the side of the road and I?d burst into tears and the guy I was driving with would say to me, look at her, she?s so upset over everyone.? I didn?t have the heart to tell him I wasn?t crying for anyone but myself.? I was mourning my husband.? He had just died.
H:?And I love that because you put yourself in a situation where you could cry as much as you want.? No one thought it was strange or odd.
L:?No.
H:?Yet you were grieving because of what had happened with the devastation of the hurricane.? It reminds me of when my brother died.? I went on Colorado Outward Bound and it was the hardest program I?ve ever been on and he had only been dead three months.? And I cried and screamed and kicked the whole way through it and everyone that was on it with me said well, it?s just a hard program for her.? They had no idea I was grieving him.? That?s why I was crying.
L:?I know, I didn?t have the heart to tell them.? They thought I was just so sensitive to everything around me, the devastation.? I was just living my mourning period.
G:?Exactly.? It reminds me of the thought that we do also try to become very, very competent after we?ve had a loss to get control.? Try to find things to do that make you feel competent and unfortunately one of the things that happens is people know about it very well, they don?t let do the things that make you competent.?
L:?That?s right.
G:?And they need to give you new challenges, they need to give you new information.? I?m going to get together with a well-known guy in about a week whose child died not too long ago.? And I?m going to talk to him about his research and the fact that we?re going to use some of his research in our next book with Eric Hipple.
L:?How wonderful.
G:?And he really has responded because I emailed him about his child and he hasn?t said anything, but now I?m asking him to be competent.? And I would say to people out there get people to ask you to be competent.
L:?Oh, it?s so true.?
H:?And also get people to ask you to help them with something because when you?ve had a death you feel like such a victim.? You feel so helpless and if someone comes to you and says hey, I need help with something, you want to help other people.
L:?Exactly.? It helps in the healing process.
G:?Yeah, you just feel so out of control and you really want to,
L:?It?s a very hard thing and it?s a very interesting thing.? Until you really go through it yourself you have no idea what someone?s going through.? And every loss is different for every person.? I?ve lost both parents.? I lost two best girlfriends.? They were young.? My girlfriend was 53 when she died of breast cancer and it was shortly before my own husband got sick and died.? And I felt very bad, so bad that I couldn?t go to the funeral.? I was so upset about losing my girlfriend and as bad as I felt for all these people, losing my husband and soul mate rocked me right to my core.? I was not prepared.
G:?Well, it?s a different kind of loss, isn?t it?? I mean when you have a child die, you?re missing the care-giving activities, but when you have a spouse die from talking to my friends who?ve had spouses die, it?s a partnership and they?ve been doing half the business.
L:?Well, I felt like I had lost a limb and I had to learn to walk again without it, or carry on without it.? It was very difficult, but I will tell you hard work, perseverance, positive attitude, it pays off.? I went to counseling for more than a year, I?m very grateful that I don?t feel badly or guilty about that.? I recognized that I needed to speak to someone.? I needed answers.? I needed someone to help me through this.? I couldn?t do it alone.
G:?Now, Beverly was saying that she would like to start dating again.
L:?Oh, I think it?s wonderful.? And what I tell widows when they say this, that?s a wonderful thing.? Get ready.? Go.? Have a good time.? Give yourself permission to get out there and have a wonderful time.? Do not feel guilty.
H:?Did you feel judged at all when you started dating by others?
L:?You always will feel that.? For me, I?m a very private person and I dated very discreetly.? I was very careful, but I?m thrilled.? And what I did was I met someone who is not from my area so it made it very easy.
G:?Let’s talk a little bit about that when we come back from break because I know our audience wants to talk about that.? I want to talk a little bit about online dating and about dating guilt and all that kind of thing.? So I?m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.? You?re listening to a pre-record today so you won?t be able to call in.? We?d like you to go to our blog, www.thegriefblog.com and read the comments about the holidays, put your own comments in if you have special traditions, special things that you want to talk about.? We would love to get them on our blog and also if you have any pictures.? We have past shows archived there, the holiday shows, so please go on and take a look and stay tuned for more.
When we went to break, we?ve been talking with Linda Della Donna about the loss of her husband three-and-a-half years ago from esophageal cancer and how she?s gotten through the holidays and how she?s coped.? We were talking when we went to break a little bit about dating and I want to talk about online dating.? What?s your take on that?? And people, you said they?re ready to date in case someone just tuned in, to go for it, right?
L:?Oh, absolutely.? I just met someone on an Internet dating site and the results are phenomenal.
G:?That?s amazing.? How did you feel about doing it and what would you say to those folks out there who are scared.
L:?Well, I will tell you there were a lot of false alarms, a lot of disappointments.? Be very careful.? Be honest, look for someone who?s ? There?s profiles you have to read through and then you meet at a nice place.? I suggest coffee so that if you?re not happy you can get up and leave.? And don?t be afraid to say oh, this isn?t going to work.? I know for myself it got to a point where I said I?m sorry.? I once met a man.? We were supposed to meet for coffee and he was in the parking lot and I realized he lied about his profile.? His picture was not what he looked like and before we even went in I was in no mood.? I said no, this isn?t going to work.? No, sorry.? I just ended it right there, let?s not waste each other?s time.? I say know who you are and get there.? The more people you meet the more people you?re going to know who you want to meet.? Keep a sense of humor.? Always keep a sense of humor and have a good time.
H:?And the guy you ended up meeting that you hit it off with, is he a widower?
L:?No, which is surprising because I had figured I had to be with a widower.? I discounted all divorced men.? The few that I had met didn?t understand and I felt alienated.? This gentleman had been a bachelor for 12 years and we just hit it off the first time we met.? The chemistry was incredible and we were laughing and having a good time and I was having such a good time that I was afraid I would scare him off.? So I got very quiet and said goodbye and I didn?t think I?d hear from him.? I worried that I wouldn?t hear back from him and I did hear the next day and I was invited someplace that weekend and I went.? It was a day trip on a boat and I went and then after that there was another.? By the third day, we were a couple.? I mean it was just incredible.?
H:?Now does he remind you of Ed or are they completely different?
L:?Oh, there are so many qualities about him that are Ed-like it?s incredible.? And as a matter of fact he made a joke the first time he met my son.? He says oh, hi, George, he says, your mother only called me Ed three times today.
H:?That is so cute.? And it sounds like he?s not threatened by the fact that you have wonderful memories of Ed.
L:?No, what?s wonderful about this man is, and I met a lot of men who are threatened, and those are the men, you know, that?s unfortunate for them.? This man is so confident in himself and his abilities and he, like you said before, to get someone to build confidence in you.? That?s what he does with me, he?s always building confidence in me and he?s always ? It?s just a good match.
H:?And he?s got a great sense of humor and humor is so important in dealing with tragedies.
L:?Exactly.? I?m very, very happy.? I recommend it.? I?ve got to tell you I was dubious but it was my son who said Ma, go on, and he said the Internet dating site and I said oh.? He said go ahead, go out, have a good time.
H:?I give George so much credit.? A lot of children no matter how old they are would not say that and they?re very hesitant about their parents going out and dating.
G:?And they would say that?s silly and whatever.
L:?My son is very innovative in his thinking and he?s a Gen Xer definitely and he was the one who encouraged me.? Please Ma, get out.
H:?And your son is a very selfless person.? He realizes that you need to go and have a life.
L:?Yes, yes.? It?s working out really well and actually it?s our four-month anniversary next week and we?re already a couple and we?re making plans and doing things.? It?s just incredible.? I feel like I got a bonus in life and the interesting part is he?s the same age as my husband would have been.
G:?Well, the topic of the show is “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse.”? What about the men?? Have you got any observations on widowers?
L:?I think that the widowers and the research I did was this.? If the average for a woman to be widowed is 55 and the widows that make it are the ones who work hard at giving.? Mother Cabrini was a widow and she founded the Nuns of Catholic Charity and she did works of goodness.? And there are others ? There was Jackie Kennedy, there was Eleanor Roosevelt, these women are real good examples of how to move forward and they were strong people.? The longer a woman stays single after she is widowed, the longer she will remain single.
G:?Oh, that?s an interesting –
L:?And the men on the other hand, and that?s because the men, widowers, they will look to marry very soon after.
H:?I would think that that would be the case because ? And I think a lot of them are used to
L:?I met a man who didn?t know how to turn on a gas stove.
H:?Right, they?re used to being taken care of and also women reach out to other women for support, men often reach out to their spouse for support.
L:?That?s right, and the longer a woman waits, because a man will remarry very soon, it means the man pool gets smaller.
G:?Oh, that?s interesting because there is a small man pool anyway because it?s the men that are dying earlier, right?
L:?Right.
G:?So we?ve got this small pool there.
L:?Right, men die sooner, women become widows earlier and the longer they wait, the man pool gets very ? Their chances are slim.? And the other thing is I tell women take care of yourself, comb your hair, be good to yourself, go for a manicure.? There?s nothing wrong with making yourself attractive.? Everyone wants to be proud of who they?re with.
G:?I have to think about my mother.? She was quite a character.? After my dad died, a couple of years later, she noticed that her old boyfriend?s wife died and so she called him up and they just struck up a whole relationship.
L:?Isn?t that fabulous?
G:?And it was wonderful.? They dated in college.
L:?Oh, how wonderful.
G:?And they had more fun together.
H:?I love how Phyllis was proactive and called him after all those years.
G:?Yeah.? She called him right up after all those years.? The funny part was she met ? Like you said, she met him at a tearoom during the day and she said I walked in and I thought I wonder who that old man is?? Because she was 80 when she did this.
L:?Well, it?s wonderful and everyone needs to feel loved and to give love.? It?s just really a wonderful, wonderful way of being alive.? Life is for the living.
G:?Well, let?s talk about your five dos to get through because one of them is what, the first one, #1, five dos to get through is to love yourself this holiday, right?
L:?Absolutely.? Do what?s good for you, make new memories but do what?s good for you.? Take yourself out, pamper yourself a little bit.? I wrote that article a while ago so I need some refreshing.
G:?That?s pretty much what you said and don?t be afraid to ask yourself out loud questions, where do you want to go??
L:?Oh, yeah.
G:?What do you want to do and who do you want to see?
L:?Oh, yeah.? I talk to myself ? I used to drive along and talk to myself all the time and it?s such a habit.? The gentleman I?m with now will come into the room and say who are you talking to?? Oh, myself.?
G:?And then you say give yourself permission.? I love that.? To mourn, to grieve, to laugh, to cry.
L:?Oh, yes, it?s really important.? Give yourself permission.? There?s no right or wrong way to grieve.? There?s only your way and, like I said before, grief is like a thumbprint, no two alike.? You?re entitled to be sad when you need to be sad.
G:?And perform acts of loving kindness.? You have that in there.
L:?Get out there and help.? Just extend a helping hand and you don?t have to stand on a street corner and freeze to ring a bell.? If you can?t do that, there?s other ways of helping your neighbor.? Find out if someone in your own neighborhood or in your ? Join a community.? If you belong to a church or synagogue, find out if you can make sandwiches.? You can make sandwiches and they bring them down to the city to the homeless.? You can get together some gloves.? I took a drawer of Ed?s out of his closet, I took coats and gloves one winter and I took them to the homeless shelter.
H:?The best thing I did this Thanksgiving was me and my son went to a food pantry and brought canned goods and stocked them there.? It?s such a wonderful feeling to give back.
L:?Oh, how nice.? Absolutely.
G:?And your #4 was to get out and I think that is so ? Even to walk to the mailbox or walk around the block for some of these folks, you?ve got to get out of the house.
L:?Absolutely.? Get out of the house.? That?s so true.
G:?Get up and get out.? And do get over it.? I thought that was interesting.? Do begin each day by reminding yourself that you?re important and that life is for the living.? I think that is so great.? It?s important.? We can define ourselves as the stereotypical widow dressed in black.? Sad.? Not doing anything, or we can define ourselves as kind of the ? I don?t know, what would we call it?? Would that be another name for widow?? Do you like widow?
L:?I hate the word widow.? It reminds me of a spider.? We?re just independent ladies who are now searching for a new identity, a new me.
G:?And a few men out there, too.
L:?Yes, and there?s nothing wrong with looking and being interested in the opposite sex.? You?re not cheating.? If you think that way, get over it, stop that.
H:?And I like that you said at the end when you said so what are you waiting for, do it, I dare you.
L:?Yes, well, I also tell people to hug your pet and what I lovingly refer to as a journal, write in it, write a memory.
G:?That?s a nice idea.? Well, it?s time for us to go to break and I?m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.? And we?re talking about “Getting Through the Holidays without Your Spouse.”? You can reach us through our blog, www.thegriefblog.com.? We?d love to get any Christmas memories, thoughts, pictures of our children, whatever you?d like to send us and we know this is a difficult time of year for you and our hearts are out there for you.? And we want you to remember you do not walk alone during this holiday.

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