July 12, 2007: Honoring a Young Child’s Death – Nancy Thomason
HEALING THE GRIEVING HEART
Honoring A Young Child?s Death
Hosts:? Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Heidi Horsley
With guest:? Nancy Thomason
July 12, 2007
G:?Hello.? I?m Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host
H:?Dr. Heidi Horsley.
G:?Each week we welcome you to Healing the Grieving Heart, a show of hope and conversation with those who?ve suffered the loss of a loved one and for health professionals who work in this most difficult field.? And as always the message is others have been there before you and made it.? You do not walk alone.? This is a pre-record so you won?t be able to call in today but you can listen to us on Ipod and you can also go to www.thegriefblog.com and all of our show transcripts are on that site and you can also listen to the archives there of all of our shows.? And Heidi, before we introduce our guest, Nancy Thomason, who?s founder of the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation, I want to talk a little bit about what?s going on with our blog.? We?re always working on it.? www.thegriefblog.com.? You can go to Scott?s site on there.? You can leave a candle.? You can write your thoughts.? You can comment on articles that we have numerous articles on there.
H:?I was going to say, you can read articles on various topics dealing with bereavement.?
G:?We?ve got a recipe area where we?re hoping to do something on our loved one?s favorite recipes because food?s an important thing to us, isn?t it, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely.? It?s comforting.
G:?So we?re doing some fun and interesting things and also trying to stay current and again if you have things that you want to put on, please go to our blog, www.thegriefblog.com, and add your own comments, thoughts, and send us articles or whatever that you?ve found particularly useful.? Well, Heidi, today I wanted to talk a little bit about a new thing I?ve been reading about recently which, and I guess it isn?t new for some people, which is positive psychology.
H:?Right.? I love it.? I know this week I?ve read three articles this week alone.? One in Harvard Magazine, one in the New York Times, and one in the Economist all on this topic.?
G:?Yeah, and this is a pre-record so I want to tell you, if you want to read this New York Times article about it, you will have to go to the New York Times magazine section and the date is ? I?m not sure.? What was last Sunday, Heid?
H:?It was in yesterday?s.? I don?t know.
G:?January 7.
H:?Yes.
G:?January 7.? The magazine.? On the front of it is ?The Trials of my Babysitter,? but anyway, there?s an article in there about the new psychology.? But what Heidi and I wanted to talk a little bit about what a change it is.? I think it?s important for us, we who are grieving and in the field of grief and loss, we know that it?s not a pathology to have lost a child and feel hopeless, helpless.? Feel desperate.? All the things that you may be feeling out there.
H:?Absolutely.? I mean in the past, psychiatry and psychology have really been a pathology-based model and if grief went on longer than two months, it?s still like this, it was classified as major depression and something was wrong with you and that?s just not the way it is.? That?s not true.? We all know that grief lasts a very long time and it goes in waves.? Not stages.? And we can be overwhelmed years down the road by our losses.
G:?Absolutely, and I?ll be presenting
H:?It?s normal.
G:?Yeah, it?s normal, and the things that are happening to you are normal, and Heidi and I are hoping that this show.? It?s not a road to resolving grief for you, this show.? This show is a show of hope and hopefully forgiveness and hearing other people and how they?ve taken their journey, don?t you think, Heid?
H:?Absolutely.? I was going to add to that, mom, completely, that the positive psychology is what we?ve been doing on the show all along and what the psychiatrists and psychologists are saying today is that they are making a shift and they want to start focusing on hope, forgiveness, love and resilience and that?s what the show is all about are those things and how do we get through these tough times?? How do we go down our road of grief?? I mean, how do we do it, and looking to others that are further down the road to see how they?ve done it.
G:?Absolutely, and we?re there to walk your journey with you.? Well, Heid, would you like to introduce our guest today?
H:?Sure, I?d love to.? Our guest today is Nancy Thomason, and our topic is ?Honoring a Young Child?s Death.?? In February 2000, Nancy Thomason?s 17-month-old son, Cade, died due to a brain tumor.? At the time of Cade?s death, Nancy vowed to fight the disease in honor of her son.? Nancy founded the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation and began the first organization for brain tumor patients in Oklahoma.? Nancy talks candidly about her deep faith in God and divinely-inspired mission and passion to not let her son?s suffering and death be without reason.? Nancy will be a keynote speaker at the 30th National Compassionate Friends Conference, ?Trails of Tears to Healing Hearts,? held in Oklahoma City.? The conference starts next weekend and will run July 20 through July 22.? My mom and I will be there, and we hope you will join us.? Welcome to the show, Nancy.
N:?Hi.? Thank you.
G:?Hi, Nancy.? It?s great to have you on the show.? Heidi and I have just been so impressed with the work you?ve been doing and with your website.? Could you give folks your website address?
N:?It?s www.okbtf.org.? It?s just the acronym for the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation.?
G:?Yes, leading us into.? Tell us about Cade, and tell us about founding the foundation.
N:?Well, Cade, he was an amazing child.? He was only twelve weeks old when he was diagnosed and just was a normal little boy, running around, giving his big brother a hard time.? We found out the cancer had spread right before his first birthday so he ended up having his second brain surgery right before.
G:?So when he was twelve weeks old, you found out that he had a brain tumor.
N:?Yes.
H:?Yeah, I was wondering how did you know at twelve weeks that something was wrong?
N:?Well, I thought he was blind.? You know mothers, we try not to compare kids.? They don?t always come along as fast as your first one or walking or grabbing or just different milestones that children have, and so I was trying not to compare him to my oldest and then I started doing more like little tests and stuff on his eyes and he wasn?t responding and so I really thought he was blind and took him to the doctor and thank God she was a smart enough pediatrician because brain tumors are really very often misdiagnosed in children.? And she just recognized the symptoms and sent us on for a CAT scan which showed that he had water on his brain and so that just began a whirlwind of.? Went straight to the hospital.? Immediately had surgery to relieve the pressure.? And it was amazing when he came out of the surgery, it was like he saw me for the first time because the water was putting pressure on his optic nerves which was causing his eyes to do this thing where, they call it sunsetting.? But he was just like a new baby after that.
H:?It was on new hope.
N:?Yes.? It was just amazing.? He just started coming along just like a normal child after that.
G:?Now were you aware that the tumor was malignant at that time?
N:?No.? It was so small and it was on his brain stem that we couldn?t biopsy it or do anything with it without fear of it could have killed him during the surgery or he could have been extremely disabled from it.? So we opted to watch it and we had to do an MRI every month and that took.? We did that for about a year and we were just getting ready to move to an MRI every other month when I noticed the same kind of symptoms in him again and took him back to the doctor, and that?s when we found really in a matter of two weeks, the tumor had tripled in size and spread down his spine.? So that started the.? Then we immediately had another brain surgery and that was on his first birthday and then we started chemotherapy the next day, and we ended up losing him in February of 2000.
H:?At seventeen months.
N:?Yes.
H:?Oh, that?s awful.? And how old was his brother at the time?
N:?He was seven.
H:?Seven.? Wow.
N:?And now he?s thirteen.
G:?And do you have other children?
N:?No.? No.? That?s just those two.? I had my tubes tied after I had my youngest son because I thought well, you know, I?d be happy with two boys, so I kind of regretted that since but.
G:?Now you were talking as Heidi was reading the information about how that you felt like you were inspired to start this foundation.? Can you talk a little bit about that?
N:?Well, I?ve always felt like I had this calling in my life or something I was supposed to be doing but I didn?t really know what it was and felt for years I was searching and changed my degree a million times while I was in college.? And after my son was diagnosed, it was just like a hammer hit me on the head because there wasn?t any resources out there for brain tumor families and specifically for brain tumor families.? There are a lot of resources for families who have a child with cancer, but the situations and the things that you go through with a child with brain cancer are very different.? And so I just, you know, it was, you know, literally like God just hit me over the head with a hammer and said this is what I have for you to do.? I just never at the time did it ever occur to me that he would die, you know.? I thought I would go on and start this organization and he would be fine and.
H:?So there was no.? Did you do any grief work while he was ill at the end?? I mean, did you feel like you started to grieve the loss of him or did you hold on to hope until after he had died?
N:?I think I held on to hope.? It wasn?t until probably.? Well, we had to make the decision to stop treatment on him, and it was at that time when we made that decision that it, you know, finally came to me that I was going to have to, you know, that I was going to lose him.?
G:?When we come back from break, I?d like to talk to you a little bit more, Nancy Thomason, about the brain tumor foundation, but also about our folks out there who have had to end treatment of family members and how you did that and what kind of ramifications there are with that for the family.? I?m your host, Dr. Gloria Horsley, with my co-host, Dr. Heidi Horsley.? You?re listening to Healing the Grieving Heart, and we?re talking to Nancy Thomason about her son Cade?s death.? You can download our show on Ipod and you can also go to our website to get our archived shows at www.thegriefblog.com.? Please stay tuned for more.
When we went to break, you were saying that you and your husband had to make the decision to stop Cade?s treatment, and I wondered for those folks out there who have had to do that themselves and are questioning or feeling guilt, do you have any thoughts around that?
N:?Well, it was the most difficult, obviously, the most difficult decision I?ve ever had to make in my life.? We just were in a situation where we had tried everything and the only thing that was left to try would have just ? they couldn?t give us a whole lot of hope with it, and the treatment didn?t have the percentage ? the chance that it was going to help him was very very small and he was going to have to go through so much in order to go through the treatment.? It would have required three spinal taps a week and I couldn?t see putting him through that.? And he had gone from being a healthy 35-pound baby
H:?Wow, he was big.
N:?Yes.? I have healthy babies.? They take after their mama.? And he was down to 17 pounds.? And I just couldn?t put him through any more.? And I just felt like we had to make the decision to concentrate on making the time that we had left with him as comfortable and full of love and not pain, you know.
H:?So you took him home and he didn?t need to go to the hospital any more at that point, is that right?
N:?Right.
H:?And how long was he at home?? How long did he live after that?
N:?About three weeks.
G:?And what about his brother?? How did you include him in it or what did you do with this?
H:?Did you prepare him?
G:?What?s his name?
N:?His name is Rain like rain out of the sky.? And it was really difficult because we had talked so much about that he was going to be healed.? I just believed God was going to heal him and everything was going to be okay, and there was a time specifically I remember.? I was at home with both of them and my youngest, Cade, was laying on the floor.? At this time, he could still take a bottle.? He was drinking his bottle and his big brother was laying down beside him, and I just was bawling.? And my Rain was like, ?Mama, why are you crying??? And I said, ?Baby, because Cade, he?s really sick.?? He said, ?Mama, don?t cry.? Cade?s going to be fine.? God?s going to heal Cade.??
G:?Still had the hope.? How is Rain doing with it now after these years?
N:?He is very wise beyond his years.? He has insights a normal 13 year old wouldn?t have.? He just is a lot more mature.? He?s doing really well.
G:?Now will he be coming to the conference because there are wonderful teen-age programs going on there, aren?t there, Heidi?
N:?Yes, in fact, there are, and I?ve talked to him about it, and I?ve even talked to him about doing the keynote with me.
G:?Oh, that would be wonderful.? You know, one of the things that we?ve found at the conferences, there are a lot of ? what do I want to call them? only children that are there, aren?t there, Heidi?
H:?Children that are the surviving child, right, and they don?t have any other surviving siblings.
G:?They really understand each other.
H:?I do a teen workshop for teens and I?d love to have him there.? We really need the teen-age voice.? We do not have the teen-age voice enough because, you know, teens don?t want to stand up and talk a lot oftentimes.? They want to kind of be private so it?s so important for us to hear what they?re going through and what?s helped them and what hasn?t helped them.?
N:?Right.? Well, that?s what I told him.? I said, you know.? He goes, ?What would I say??? And I said, ?Well, baby, what would you tell.? You know, you?re talking to a young boy that has just lost his little brother.? What would you tell him?? What was the one thing that you could tell him that would help him have some hope and know that it?s going to be okay that you could give him?? The one word of advice that you could give him.?
G:?Did he have one?
N:?He?s been thinking about it.? He was like.? He said, ?I don?t know.??
H:?And also what things didn?t help.? Were there things that didn?t help and how are his.? Oftentimes teenagers say their parents, and I don?t know how you are.? I?ll have to ask you.? Their parents become overprotective and really worried about them because they?ve lost children and they?re worried that something?s going to happen to their surviving children.
N:?Right.? Yeah, I would say I?ve struggled with that.
H:?Yeah, and I know kids say that?s a little hard for them, especially when you?re a teenager, right?
N:?Um hm.? They?re trying to get their own
G:?Now did you early on really monitor him for illness or things like that in your own mind, Rain, without trying to do it?? I would imagine parents would be
N:?He is extremely healthy.? He never gets sick.? I?m so fortunate.? I think I do and it?s always in the back of his mind because he had an inflamed gland behind his ear.? It was like a really hard nodule.? Okay.? And, of course, I?m like freaking out, you know.? I?m going okay.? Let?s go to the doctor, you know, and the doctor said well, if it doesn?t go away with this or that or you know we?re going to do this test or do that test and then Rain goes, oh, my God, it?s cancer.
H:?Right, cause your mind immediately would go there.
N:?Right, you know.? And I said, no, it?s not.? Don?t even talk like that.? It?s just an inflamed gland.? Everything?s fine.?
G:?Well, they have lost a bit of innocence, haven?t they?
N:?Uh huh.? Yeah.? Just that.? I don?t know.? It can be a blessing and a cursing at the same time.
H:?And the research does show exactly what you?re saying with Rain that kids that have gone through this know parents get worried.? Kids that have gone through the death of a sibling are more mature and see the world differently than children that haven?t had a loss.
G:?And they do have compassion.? They develop a whole area there.
H:?They have more empathy.? They?re more resilient.?
N:?I believe that.? I know Rain?s teachers at school are always commenting to me on how he gets like if.? They?ll say in kind of an adult inside joke, you know, like maybe just between teachers or something, and he gets it, and they.? It just always kind of, you know, freaks em out a little bit but he?s on that level with that much insight into life, you know.? But I think that.? And I try to.? I want Rain to understand that I don?t believe anything in life happens by chance.? And we?ve been dealt this card and it?s up to us to see what it is that we?re supposed to do with this in our lives.? I don?t know what that is for him.
G:?So you?re looking for meaning with it.
N:?Yeah.?
G:?One of the things Heidi and I talk about down the road is meaning but that first year, it?s pretty hard to find it.
N:?Oh, the first year, it?s impossible to find meaning in it.
G:?Now, I?m interested that you started the energy, the engine that started your foundation was your son?s brain tumor, the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation.? Do you think you could have done that the first year if you?d started after he died?
N:?Well, I did.
G:?You started it the first year after he died?
N:?Yeah, I did.
G:?Oh, I thought you were thinking about it before.
N:?Well, when he died, I started like.? He died in February.? The first group meeting I held was in April.?
H:?Wow.? That?s amazing.
N:?The first advocacy event I did was in July and that?s how I handled my grief.
H:?You kind of actively grieved.
N:?Yes, very much so.? And it?s very, you know, I think the first support group meetings that we used to have were very much centered around how I was responding to what I was going through.? I mean, there was.? I mean when I was angry.? There was a time that I found that I just wanted to break things.? And, of course, you don?t want to break things.? Somehow you try to do it constructively and so I found that I would go to garage sales and get clay pots because I would break em up and I?d put em in the bottom of my big pots for drainage.
G:?Oh, that?s a great idea.
H:?I like that.
N:?I would throw em.? I would throw em against the wall outside.
G:?I heard people talk about breaking dishes.? Buying some old dishes and breaking em.
N:?Yeah.? It just felt so good.
G:?I love the clay pot idea and putting em in there.? That?s a great idea.
N:?Yeah because it didn?t break up into little shards.
G:?Heidi and I were wondering what was your past history of loss?? Had you had any family losses early on?
N:?No.? My family?s all quite a bit older.? I was adopted when I was a small baby and so my parents are quite a bit older and so my family?s older.? I?ve lost my grandparents which made a big impact on me.
G:?Now were you younger when they died?
N:?No.? I was a little bit older.? And my grandfather died a few years before Cade was born and then my grandmother died shortly after Cade died.
G:?Okay.? We were wondering because we?re still kind of amazed that you could start this whole brain foundation so early.? However, don?t you think, Heidi, that this shows people?s different responses to loss?
H:?Absolutely, and I?m thinking it was kind of a parallel process because while you were starting the foundation, you were able to tell your story and kind of work through your own grief as well.
N:?Right.? It?s very much how I handle my grief, and I?m not going to sit and say that it was probably the smartest thing because
G:?Yeah, would you talk about that.? The idea that it?s not the smartest thing to jump in.
N:?I was still dealing with the, you know, you don?t want to.? When I stopped.? It?s six years after my son died.? I?ve kept myself so busy so as to not sit and dwell and think and, you know, and when I would get to that point at home where I was so sad and I was just enveloped in depression, that I would get up and I would go to my computer and I would start writing a grant or I would start working on a support group newsletter.
G:?Let?s talk a little bit when we come back from break about what you were doing prior to your son dying because I?m seeing some parallels here with working folks and with men, people who are working full time.
H:?I was just thinking that.
G:?We?re coming up on break.
Well, Nancy, when we went to break.? Well, before we get on our topic again, I just wanted to again say to you all out there, it?s not too late to come to the National Compassionate Friends 30th National Conference.? It?s going to be a wonderful conference this year because it is the 30th anniversary.? Heidi and I will be presenting.? Nancy will be presenting.? There?ll be great workshops.? There?ll be the Walk to Remember.? It?s going to be quite an event, isn?t it, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely, and it starts next weekend and will run July 20 through the 22nd.
G:?So please join us.? Nancy, when we went to break, you were going to your computer and writing grants and things like that in honoring your son with this brain tumor foundation and the fact that you were really ? had it up and running during your earliest grief and right after Cade died.
H:?And kind of throwing yourself into your work.
G:?And Heidi and I have heard that so much from men, haven?t we, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely.
G:?And what you said earlier on the show is maybe it wasn?t the best thing for them.? We?ve had a lot of men say that they did put their grief a little bit on hold and maybe should have taken a little more care of themselves.? And they were out helping others right away.? So what were you doing before you formed the foundation?
N:?I was a grant writer, and I was working for World Neighbors, which is an international development agency that the headquarters is here in Oklahoma City.? And so I was working.
G:?That?s a non-profit, right?
N:?Right.? I really feel now, I mean, I can look back over my life and I can see how God?s just kind of been preparing me to take on this role.? The different people that he?s brought into my life and the jobs that have really prepared me to take this on.
G:?Now what are you doing with the foundation now?
N:?Well, we concentrate on helping families that have primary brain tumors and central nervous system tumors with their day-to-day needs.? A big portion of that is our financial assistance program which really helps set us apart from most other cancer advocacy organizations because we have provided a thousand dollars per family per year of assistance, which is
G:?Now is this nationally?
N:?No, this is just in the State of Oklahoma.
G:?Oh, in the State of Oklahoma.? Uh huh.
N:?And we have our supportive service program which helps to coordinate services with other agencies and organizations within the state, support groups.? We have an education program that I?m really proud of where we do patient, physician, and care giver education through.? We have physician CME classes and conferences.? We do have the website and printed material.? We really just take the hand of these families and join them in the fight and hopefully we get the referral on the family early enough to really be a resource for them.
G:?Now when you say the fight against brain tumors, is that what you?re saying?
N:?Yes.? Whenever they?re first diagnosed I feel like is the most crucial time to be able to be a part of these families lives because we can offer so much assistance with education and research, second opinions.? You know, if you?ve never been there, you don?t know what you don?t know.
G:?Now what if there were some folks out there who would like to do something like you?ve done or maybe who had a child die with a brain tumor and would like to set something up in their state.? Could they get in touch with you to talk about it?
N:?Oh, most definitely.
G:?And how would they do that?
N:?They could reach me at 405-942-6442.? That?s my office number.? And they can also email me from the website.
G:?And you?ve got your number on your website, too, don?t you?
N:?Yes.
H:?You know, I?ve got to say, Nancy.? We were saying that, you know, you did it so quickly after Cade died and that most people would wait but, you know what, I think it was such a blessing that you did do it so quickly after Cade died because I feel like you had the energy and the emotion to get this up and running, and you?ve changed so many lives.
G:?Yeah, and you also had the information to do it.? You had the skill set.
H:?Well, exactly, mom.? That?s really important.? You had the knowledge first hand.? It was very fresh at that point.
N:?Right, and it?s very difficult to put yourself in that situation on a daily basis but I just, you know, without the passion there, I?m not really sure that somebody could do this without just knowing that, you know, it?s just so crucial that these families have this help, and I really feel like because of the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation, that we can help improve the quality of life for these families and the patients and also extend their survival time because if you have the information and the resources at your fingertips, then you can make informed decisions.
G:?Now what about after care?? What are you doing when the children do die?? Are you able to support the families then or?
N:?We continue to work with them and we continue to provide financial assistance for up to a year for the family after a death and they stay intimately involved.? Typically, after we?ve lost one of our patients, the families will usually get very much involved because of the impact we?ve had on, you know, the amount of help that we?ve been able to provide.? We?re not like a social service agency that you just kind of hear from the case manager.? You know, you call them when you need something.? I mean, we literally call these families on a weekly basis.? We stay in touch with them.
G:?Now do you give them the opportunity to give service that first year or be involved in a group where they can help out other families?
N:?Yes, definitely.
G:?Because one of the things that we?ve found, isn?t it, Heidi, that giving service seems to ? where people can do it
H:?Where they can help others that are less along in their grief journey and I also love the fact that you are following these families after the death of their children and siblings because most often.? You know, in hospital settings, you get very close to the hospital staff and then the day your child dies, you never see anybody again.? They disappear.
N:?Right, exactly.? Now that?s what happened to us, and we didn?t have anybody.? I mean, we were completely alone.? I often compare it to being in a dark room and feeling around for the light switch.? That?s how I felt.
H:?Which is so strange because when your child is sick, there?s so many people around, and to go from that to nobody.? When you most need people around is when you?re grieving oftentimes.
N:?Right.? And we don?t force ourselves on families.? Sometimes they just need to be left alone for a period of time and they, you know.? But we still call.? We still check in and see if there?s anything that we can do to help.
G:?That?s such a good point, Nancy, because Heidi and I often talk on the show about how people do grieve differently.? It?s not the same path.? Some families like to be connected.? Some people don?t, and that?s the wonderful thing about Compassionate Friends, too, is where there?s a group in your area and there are other support groups with grief groups going on, but you can just drop in or out and sometimes it?s very important to be connected.? But we also like our show because some people who don?t like to go out can tune in and listen on the air.
N:?Exactly, yeah.
G:?But we?re coming up on break now.? This is our last break, and I just want to say to our audience, we hope that you?ll come to the National Conference next weekend.? It starts.? There?s a professional day on Thursday for professionals working in the field of grief and loss and then Friday we start the workshops and all day Saturday and then Sunday we have a Walk to Remember and there?ll be literally over a hundred workshops.? Heidi, do you want to talk about what?s going on for the siblings?
H:?I am doing a workshop for siblings only so parents, you are not invited.? This is a very private workshop.? We have to vent.? So I?m doing one for siblings only and I?m doing one for teenagers only, teenage siblings.? And I?m also doing one for parents so that you can find out what your kids said.? I?m doing one for parents.? Everything you want to know about your kids, your teens, and your young adults.? What they?re saying helps them.? What they would like you to do and what they would like you not to do.? It?s a very important workshop for parents.? So that?s the three I?m doing.
N:?That sounds great.
G:?And Nancy, what are you doing?
N:?From Tragedy to Triumph.? Helping families develop ways that they can remember their child.? Yeah.
G:?And Doug Manning?s going to be there.? We interviewed him and he is going to do a workshop there.? It?s just going to be a great conference so we hope you?ll all make the effort to come and join us.? And, Heidi, I just want to talk a little bit more about what an amazing person Nancy is, don?t you think?
H:?Absolutely.? I cannot believe, seriously, all the lives she?s touched and all the things she?s done with regard to brain tumors.? It?s amazing.
G:?It is.
N:?Well, thank you.? I really, though, I don?t like to take the credit for it because it all is divinely inspired and it comes from God and it?s
H:?And Cade is with you every step of the way, I?m sure.
N:?Very much so, and it?s just a vision that I have been given so I?m just a tool.
G:?And you know, um, the amazing thing, too, is for anybody who?s in a profit, because I?m on the Board of the Compassionate Friends, the fact that you are able to write these grants and get money to give these people a thousand dollar grants and things.? That?s pretty amazing in this world.? That is not an easy thing to do.
H:?No, it?s not.
N:?It?s not.? It?s not my favorite thing to do, write grants anymore, but you know we do what we have to do.
G:?That?s the way.? That?s the way it goes.? Give people your website again because you?ve got so many wonderful things on your website and it?s so colorful.? I really enjoyed it.
N:?Oh, thank you.? It?s www.okbtf.org.? The acronym for the Oklahoma Brain Tumor Foundation.
G:?Right.? Okay.? And you can also google Nancy Thomason and you can also go on our website, you?ll see the e-card for the show and maybe some comments we?ll put there for the show today.? So, Nancy, if you had a piece of advice for any of those folks out there who are grieving the loss of their child, what would it be?
N:?Be patient with yourself.? Don?t expect that you?d be able to.? I hear so much from people that they, oh, gosh, I started crying in the store today when I saw this little boy walk by.? Well, of course, you know, it?s completely normal.? These are just.? These are things that we go through as we?re grieving and it?s going to take awhile to get to a point where that doesn?t happen any more and not to beat yourself up over it.? And one other thing, too, I think is especially important is not to try to go back to the life that you had before.? And I wrote a little bit about this and I don?t know if you?re going to post it on the website or not, but I think so many times that we try to go back
G:?By the way, we will post it.
N:?Okay.? That we try to get back to what we call our normal life or what it was like before we experienced the loss and I think it?s impossible to do that.
G:?Yeah, people tell us there?s the before and after, don?t they, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely, and that you need to create a new normal because the life that we have now is not the life that we had when our loved ones were here.? It?s a different life.
N:?Exactly.? And we?re not that same person.? There?s no way that we can be that same person but we can.? It doesn?t mean that life can?t be good.
G:?But folks will be telling us to try to be in doubt, won?t they?
N:?Yes.
G:?They want the old person back.
N:?Right, but you can?t be that person because your eyes are opened, your heart is opened.? You?ve experienced things that you hadn?t experienced.? You have wisdom now that you didn?t have and
G:?Now, Heid.? I wanted to ask Heid, do you think that?s particularly difficult for kids because friends want you to be the same?? There are a lot of friends involved.
H:?Oh, absolutely.? I mean, I was 21.? Scott died.? My friends had never had a sibling loss and they all wanted me to be normal.? Be the old self.? Why aren?t you being fun again?? Why aren?t you being the way you used to be?? You?re so.? You?re different now.? You?re a different person now.? And I ended up being, you know, having a positive.? I?ve had a positive life, but I am definitely a different person like you said about your son Rain.? We?re wise beyond our years after something like this happens.
N:?Sometimes you lose friends, you know, or they go on because they can?t accept, you know, who you are now.? It doesn?t mean that who you are is not as good as the person that you were before, but, I mean, I?ve experienced that myself because they can?t deal with it themselves.? And that?s on them.? That?s not on me.? I?m still going to be.? You know, we have to do what we have to do to make ? keep ourselves healthy and to get back to a healthy spot for us and that is not where we were before because one, if you?re always looking back, then you can?t move forward.? And, I just think it?s important that.? And I see this a lot in marriages as well.? You know, the divorce rate is so high in marriages that have lost a child.
G:?It?s not really.? We?re constantly dispelling that myth.? Compassionate Friends has done a study.? It?s an email study.? You might go on the site, www.thecompassionatefriends.org, and look at it.? The divorce rate is not higher.? In fact, it?s lower.?
N:?Really?
G:?Yeah, and it?s very scary for folks to think that so go on and read that.
H:?It definitely puts stress on a marriage, and marriages do break up but they said that, like my mom said, the divorce rate is not higher among people that have had a death.? It just ends up being more stress initially and then some families even report feeling closer to their spouses.
G:?Over time.? It certainly creates a lot of issues.? You know, we?re going to have to close our show on that note, and I want to thank Nancy for being on the show.? It?s just been wonderful having you on.
N:?Oh, well, thanks for having me.? I appreciate it and I just am looking forward to the conference.
G:?Yeah.? And we?re looking forward to meeting you at the conference and hopefully taking a picture of us together, right, Heid?
H:?Absolutely.? Thanks so much, Nancy, and I can?t wait to hear you speak on ?Trails of Tears to Healing Hearts.?
N:?Well, I appreciate it, and I look forward to meeting you all.
G:?Okay, and we?ll see you then, and for all those listeners, we hope you?ll be able to make it to the conference and please stay tuned again next week when our topic will be ?The Gift of Significance,? and our guest will be Doug Manning.? Doug Manning?s one of the early pioneers in the study of grief and he?s published over thirty books and for twenty-four years has traveled the world as a lecturer and counselor.? Doug will be another keynote speaker at the Compassionate Friends National Conference.? In fact, we?re prerecording this show and we?ve prerecorded Doug?s and I think that his show will be on the Thursday of Professional Day of the Conference.? This show is archived on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com, as well as www.compassionatefriends.org website.? This is Dr. Gloria Horsley, and
H:?Dr. Heidi Horsley.?
G:?So please stay tuned to hear again next Thursday at 9:00 Pacific Standard Time, 12:00 Eastern, for more of Healing the Grieving Heart, a show of hope and renewal and support.? Remember others have been there before you and made it and you can, too.? You need not walk alone.? And so, thanks for listening.? I?m your host, Dr. Gloria Horsley, and
H:?Dr. Heidi Horsley.? Nancy, Cade is gone but not forgotten.? He is forever in your memory and he is impacting lives in all the work that you do today.? Thank you very much, Nancy.
N:?Thank you.? I appreciate that.
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