Grief | May 31, 2007 A Mother’s Journey Through Grief – Beth Page

May 31, 2007 A Mother’s Journey Through Grief – Beth Page

Submitted by Open to Hope Foundation on May 31, 2007 – 5:14 pm

HEALING THE GRIEVING HEART
A Mother?s Journey Through Grief
Hosts:? Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Heidi Horsley
With guest:? Beth Page
May 31, 2007
G:?Hello.? I?m Dr. Gloria Horsley and this is our show.? Welcome to our show, Healing the Grieving Heart.? Our show is conversation with those who have suffered a loss and is for health care professionals who have worked in this most difficult field.? And always our message is others have been there before you and made it.? You can, too.? You do not need to walk alone.? If you?re listening to our Thursday live Internet show, please join Heidi and me and our guest on the show by calling our toll-free number, 1-866-472-5792, with questions or comments regarding the losses in your life.? These shows are archived on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com, as well as www.compassionatefriends.org websites.? All of our shows can be downloaded on Itunes and transcripts can be accessed on www.thegriefblog.com.? Well, good morning, Heidi.
H:?Good morning, mom.
G:?We?ve got a really great email on our blog today that I talked to you.? I wanted to discuss it.? It?s a woman, a grandmother, who unfortunately her son died in a fall and she has a two-year-old grandchild and she wondered.? She said there?s not a lot in the literature on helping a two-year-old deal with loss and she wanted us to see if we could comment on it a bit and I noticed that it?s only been two years for her so I?ll start out by just saying, you know, it was your child, your son, and you do have a grandchild but you have to realize that I know and you know it?s difficult for you to have a loss of your son.? Do you have a comment, Heid?
H:?Uh, yes.? I was struck by this email because she was also asking how do we keep memories alive for the two-year-old about their father and we get this question all the time when I work with the 9/11 families because a lot of the women I work with were pregnant when their husbands died and so these babies never knew their fathers.? Now these children are four and five years old but one of the things that we need to do as adults is to keep the memories alive for the younger kids.? You have so many great stories about your son that died and passing those stories on to this child so that this little child, this two-year-old, could actually know his father through the stories that you have.
G:?Yeah, absolutely, and one of the things I was thinking, Heidi.? Well, first of all, let me say that I wrote a book a few years ago called The In-law Survival Manual, and one of the things that I wanted to say is obviously you have to hold your daughter-in-law very dear and very close if you want to remain in good contact with your grandchild.? And also I think one of the best things you can do for that little two-year-old is to help her mother by doing the most you can for the family at this time so that the mother has the energy after losing her husband, your son, to take care of that two-year-old, don?t you think, Heidi?
H:?Absolutely.? Also another thing is now that the child is becoming verbal, you?ll start to see between three and four and five, children will start to ask where?s daddy?? What happened to daddy?? They?ll ask things.? You?ve moved beyond that.? But for them, since they?re just becoming verbal, they might have questions that might take you by surprise and just answering candidly in age-appropriate ways is really the way to handle that kind of thing.
G:?Yeah, and later on when the kids are say over seven years old, when they get into that area, you can say things to them like I never.? I lost my son, but I?ve never lost a dad.? Tell me about that.? But one of the things I was going to say about the two-year-old.? Now there are things that you can do but you need to clear all of this with your daughter-in-law and make sure this is okay with her.? But one of the things I suggest to people is that they get maybe three or four pictures of your son or pictures that you like.? Maybe it?s not just your son.? It?s other people in the family.? And you make a little hard-cover book for him with ring binders.? Go to Kinkos and take those pictures and have them put in plastic so they?re indestructible and make a little book for that child.?
H:?That?s a great idea.? Pictures of her father and she can carry it around and say daddy! and point to it.
G:?Yeah, and they really enjoy that kind of thing right now, and you can build on that and maybe add more pictures as they get older or whatever.? So that?s one thing to do and we?re going to have a guest on today, Heidi, that I think also has some great ideas.
H:?Absolutely, and I wanted to add one more thing before I introduce Beth, and that is my son, who is now nine, never knew my brother.? However, I feel like he really has a good idea of who Scott was because I really keep his memory alive and when Alexander will do something that reminds me of Scott, I talk about Scott, what he liked to do, who he was, so that he kind of has an idea of who his uncle was even though he?s never met him.
G:?Yeah, they like those stories.? Definitely.? And also we have a website on Library of Life for Scott and you can do a website of your child through the Library of Life and it?s only like $50 for a lifetime so if you go on to www.thegriefblog.com, and hit on Scott?s Site, you can see that.? It?s very easy to set up a website.
H:?And that also goes right into what our guest has done today and she set up an amazing website which we?ll tell you how to get after I introduce her.
G:?Why don?t you go ahead and introduce her, Heid?
H:?Okay.? Our guest today, her name is Beth Page, and our topic is A Mother?s Journey through Grief.? Beth Page is the owner of Dakota Winds, a family-owned business that originated from grief and grew because of hope.? From their own experience with loss, Beth and her husband have designed some special gifts which celebrate the lasting memories of a lost loved one.? Their inspiration was their four-year-old son, Dakota, who died after a two-year battle with cancer.? Through Dakota Winds, Beth shares her story and plants seeds of hope for brighter tomorrows into the hearts of others who are grieving.? Welcome to the show, Beth.
B:?Hi.
G:?Hi, Beth.? Great to have you on.?
B:?Well, thanks for having me.?
G:?Yeah.? Before we get into all the wonderful things you and your family have done, could you tell us a little bit about Dakota and what happened.
B:?Well, you know, when you were just talking about that email that you got, it reminded me of so many of the memories and that?s exactly what we do is keeping his memory alive by talking about him.? He was 2-1/2 when he was diagnosed.? He was quite a character.? He loved to.? He had quite an imagination.
G:?Now did he have leukemia or what did he have?
B:?No, he had a brain tumor called medulloblastoma and he was diagnosed at 2-1/2.? His only symptom that we saw.? Of course, I look back and I realize that there were things that I didn?t see.? But his eye crossed and I was really hoping that it was something simple but there was just something inside of me, I said my maternal instinct was telling me that I needed to have him checked.? And we went to the doctor and we?re in a rural area and he said well, I just think we need to do a CAT scan, and I said, do you think it?s a brain tumor?? And he said, I?d like to rule it out, but I just knew at that moment that?s probably what we were dealing with.
H:?Beth, I?m shocked that you knew.? I have a 2-1/2 year old.? I would have no idea.? I would never make that connection.
B:?Well, I looked up in.? We have a family AMA, family medical guide, I said which I think everyone should have, and I just looked it up just to see what were some of the possibilities of it happening.? And then I started thinking back.? He would have headaches.? Well I was thinking they were earaches because he was two and he would say his head hurt and I was thinking it was ear infections or something.? You just don?t think of your two-year-old having a headache or like you say, brain tumor, but he was walking fine.? He didn?t have any problems with eye-hand coordination so in that sense, I didn?t see the brain tumor characteristics.? It was just really when his eye crossed and what it was is that there was fluid on the eye caused by the brain tumor.
G:?Now how many years ago was that?
B:?He died eleven years ago this past April.? He was diagnosed in January of 1994.? Now it?s been quite awhile.
G:?I want to ask you, when you?re talking about this and saying you didn?t pick up the signs for our audience out there who have recently had children die, how did you feel then?? Did you feel like you missed something or like you should have taken him earlier?? Did you have any of those feelings?
B:?Oh, absolutely.? Absolutely, especially when you find out that it was still.? When they did his surgery, they were able to get almost all of it, but there was a little bit that had metastasized on the brain stem and so they couldn?t get it all and you keep thinking, if I?d come six months earlier, would it have been different?? Would we still have to go through the same procedures?? So absolutely.
H:?But the reality is, too, there?s just no way you could have known that a 2-1/2 year old would have a brain tumor and like you said, my child saying their head hurts is an ear infection.? That?s usually what it is.
B:?Right and I took him to the doctor for an ear infection and he was actually treated for a little while with what, because again, I don?t think the doctors assumed, because you didn?t see the other symptoms.? So it?s normal to second-guess yourself.
G:?How did you get through that?? Was that kind of a first-year thing or an early thing after he did die?
B:?I think that it?s a matter of time and it?s a matter of just going through the grief and the acceptance that no matter what I did, I think this was going to happen.? And we all do it differently.? My husband, his guilt was various things.? It took him about eight years to overcome his feeling of guilt of what did I not do or what could I have done differently that Dakota would have lived?
G:?And he?s going to be talking, calling in a little later, right?
B:?Yes.
G:?So we?ll be able to hear some of his story.? That?s great.
H:?Was it helpful to hear other parents say that they also had guilt and felt they could have done more?
B:?One of the most supportive things for me and for my husband was talking to other parents who had been through the experience.? Now I will admit when he was first diagnosed, I didn?t want to talk to anyone whose child had died.? I only wanted to hear the success stories, but it is those parents that I met through his treatments for two-and-a-half years that made me get through what I?ve been through because I knew that they had walked that same walk.? They understood without my asking a question whether it was the tears or the crying or the anger, the depression.? They knew exactly what I was going through and they are the ones who helped me get through.? So I think that shows like yours where people can now listen in, because this was eleven years ago that he died, I didn?t have a computer.? I didn?t have access to so much support except for the circle of friends and families and mothers that I had met.
G:?Well, we?re coming up on break now so when we get back, we?re going to talk more with Beth Page about A Mother?s Journey through Grief, and I?m your host, Dr. Gloria Horsley.? Please stay tuned to hear more and join our show by calling our toll free number, 1-866-472-5792 regarding the losses in your life.? If you?d like to email us, you can email us about this show and upcoming shows through our website, www.thegriefblog.com.? Stay tuned for more.
Well, Beth, when we went to break we were talking a little bit about Dakota for those folks who have just joined us and about his and the whole family, I would say, two-year struggle with his brain cancer, and he died 11 years ago, and we were talking about how, before he died about some of the guilt we know our audience out there are feeling, too.? Did I get the child to my doctor soon enough?? And you know, why did I give him the keys to the car, and I don?t know.? What are some of the other ones, Heidi?
H:?I was going to say, mom, that parents feel guilty no matter what they did.? They just feel like we?re here to protect our kids.? That?s our role in life and how could this have happened in a just fair society.? Is it supposed to happen?
G:?And the siblings.? Talk about the survival stuff for them.
H:?Well that?s another thing.? Why did my sibling get sick and die and not me, or why did my sibling get in a car accident and I?m still here?? There?s a tremendous amount of guilt and we also feel like we could have done something as siblings.? Maybe we should have stopped it somehow.? Maybe we could have prevented it.? Maybe we should have known.? So there?s a lot of guilt as well with siblings.
G:?Yeah, and do you have other children, Beth?
B:?Yes, I have a son, Dylan, who is almost 14.? He was about 2-1/2 when Dakota died, and then we have a daughter, Skye Elizabeth, and she is 9 and she was born two years after Dakota died.? And she?s very similar to your son, Heidi, in that she never knew Dakota but when someone asks her how many brothers she has or does she have any brothers or sisters, she always says two.? She always mentions Dakota who lives in heaven and Dylan who teases her incessantly.? But yes, she knows Dakota as well as any of us as far as because we have pictures of him.? We talk about him, and, of course, we have Dakota Winds in his memory.
G:?Absolutely, and we want to talk about that in a minute, but first we have a caller, Debbie Smith.? Debbie, are you there?
D:?Yes.
G:?Hi, Debbie.? Welcome to the show.
D:?Hi.
G:?We appreciate your calling in.? Could you tell us a little bit something about you?
D:?Well, I work with a construction company.
G:?And you?re a bereaved parent.
D:?Yes.
G:?Ah, and tell us about that.
D:?Well, my son was killed in a car accident 16 months ago.
G:?Oh, wow.? Sixteen months ago.? Not long.? We?re very sorry to hear about that.? Yeah.
D:?He was 25.
G:?Uh huh.? And how did you get connected up with Beth.
D:?Well, my sister?s friend sent me a beautiful wind chime and it sits outside my window and plays the most beautiful tunes when the wind blows, and I mean I can?t tell you how comforting it is, and it was very unexpected, and when I opened it, it had seeds in it to plant the seeds for Brandon, and I just was so moved by it, and every time I hear the wind chimes, of course, I have to cry constantly, but I think of Brandon, and you know just sitting there, it gives me peace.
H:?Well, and I love on the website, on Beth?s website, that she has an ancient belief which says, when a soul dies, the wind will blow, and the greater the soul, the greater the winds.
D:?Well, obviously my son had a great soul because it blows all the time.
H:?Wonderful.
D:?But also Beth has Dakota bears and she helped me at Christmas with Brandon?s clothing and made wonderful bears that I can spread Brandon?s love with my family and friends.
G:?Oh, how fabulous.? We haven?t talked about that.? You do wind chimes and bears right, Beth?? Do you want to talk about those a little bit?
B:?Right.? We have bears that are manufactured but because I didn?t know if I could make bears for everybody that came out but each of them have patterns where you can make something out of your loved one?s clothes, because when Dakota died, and it took me a couple years after he died to take his ninja pajamas and his Batman pajamas and make Dakota bears that we all sleep with and I have emailed, and it?s so wonderful to hear Debbie?s voice because we?ve just emailed each other and not spoken on the phone, and she said she didn?t sew and so we were just conversing and it?s like I want to make something more special for her and she wanted to make the actual custom bears out of Brandon?s clothes and so when I got that big box of his jeans and his shirts, I just felt like I was also touched with this family in more ways than just them having one of our wind chimes and so I made the clothes.? The wind chimes came from when Dakota died, Alan wanted Dylan to remember Dakota because he was only two at the time and so he just went out and he found a wind chime and he told Dylan, he says if you want to talk with Dakota, just ring the chimes and when they ring, that?s Dakota talking to you.? And they sat by our door and every time Alan goes in and out of the house, he rings the chimes, and when Dakota died, the winds just blew tremendously and so we had the chimes were ringing constantly, and at his memorial service, a big twister came up and some people actually thought we were having a tornado or something and left, and we just know it was that great soul.? It was Dakota.? So it all fit in together and for years we just gave wind chimes to folks and we finally decided a couple of years ago to design our own which has the sunflower because we planted sunflower seeds at Dakota?s, what we call his celebration, because we wanted to celebrate his life instead of just mourn his death.? And with each wind chime and with each bear, you get a packet of sunflower seeds to show that life does continue on and to hopefully give hope to everyone as they go through this.
G:?And that you can also get, what, the bears have a little charm on them engraved with the name of your loved one on one side and then on the other side, the charm is a reminder.? It says love you.
B:?Right.? We will engrave your loved one?s name on one side and the same thing with the wind chimes.? We personalize the wind catcher which is shaped in a heart shape and we?ll print a person?s name on there just again to make it something personal and the whole theme of the show as far as the memories, just keep those memories alive that we?ve lost them in body but certainly not in spirit.
G:?Right, and in order to look at some of these wonderful things, the bear and the wind chimes, I?m looking at them right now, and the necklace, you can go to their website which is www.dakotawinds.org and we?ll also put it on our website.? Well, Debbie, I wanted to ask you Debbie, what did you call them, Brandon Bears, or?
D:?Well we do call them at the house Brandon Bears, but they do come in handy when you have those times that you just need to hold something.
G:?Absolutely.
D:?And then Beth sent me as a special little thing, she did me an extra heart out of leftover clothes that she did.? She?s such a special person.
G:?Now how many did she make for you?
D:?Uh, she made me thirty bears.?
G:?Oh, my goodness.? Now tell us
D:?I have a very large family and I didn?t want to leave anybody out.
G:?Now tell us what people said when they got them.
D:?Well, when they quit finished crying and holding onto the bears, they were so touched and could not, they were just without words.? They needed something of Brandon and now they have it.? And I didn?t want to get rid of his clothes, and it was something to do with them.
G:?You know, Debbie, I just know of so many people who have bags of their kid?s clothes around and this one lady was telling me her little child died and she kept the bag really tight because she wanted to keep the smell, you know.
D:?And they did smell like him, and then I did go out and get more of his colognes to spray periodically.
G:?Oh, that?s a great idea, too.
D:?Yeah, they have, just the chimes and the bears just keep Brandon in our home.
H:?Well, and at night you can sleep with them, with the bears and have him close to you.
D:?Well my grandbaby, I gave him one to take home with him, but he steals mine when he comes to my house and he has to keep it.? He says I have to have my bear.? We fight over it.
G:?You know that?s great because we just received an email.? We were talking about it at the top of the show about a grandma who her two-year-old grandchild, she?s trying to.? Her son died in a fall about the same age as yours and she?s trying to figure out how to keep the memories alive for the two-year-old so this is another wonderful idea, this bear idea.? I like it very much.
D:?Yeah, well, Nathan plays ball and I?ll say who taught you how to play ball?? And he?ll say my daddy.? And he goes you know Brandon, don?t you?? Yeah, I think I do, baby.? I think I do.
H:?Very cute.
G:?Yeah, these kids just break your heart don?t they?? They?re just so up front and so honest.? Great.? Well thank you so much, Debbie.? And good luck on your journey and please listen in on some of the shows and email us if we can do anything for you and thank you so much for coming on the show.
D:?I appreciate it.? Thank you so much, Beth.
B:?Well, Debbie, I?m so glad to hear you, and thanks so much for calling.
D:?Oh, I appreciate it.? Thanks for asking me to be on.? Bye bye.
G:?Well.
H:?That?s wonderful.
G:?Really great.
H:?I love all those ideas.? I love the wind chimes and the bears.? They?re wonderful.? And I love the sunflower seeds in order to celebrate life.
G:?It?s great.? Well, we?re coming up on break right now.?
When we went to break, for those who have just tuned in, we just had a caller, Debbie Smith, and she was talking about this fabulous Dakota Winds business, I guess we?ll call it a business, but a business of the heart, right, Beth?
B:?Absolutely.
G:?That Beth Page and her husband do and they produce bears for people out of ? do you do bears without children?s clothes?? Do you just have generic bears that you send out, too?
B:?Yes.? We do have manufactured bears that we have but that we custom with a heart charm with the person?s name and they do come with a pattern which you can make either aprons or overalls for your own use if you?d like.
G:?Oh, cute.? And then what if people send the clothes in of their child?? Do you make them?
D:?Yes, I do that right here at home.?
G:?Oh, you actually do it?? Wow.? You made the 30 bears for Debbie Smith for Christmas?
D:?I made her 30 bears.? My living room was full but it was a labor of love, let me tell you.
G:?Oh, that must be incredible, because Heidi and I really feel like when we do a show with somebody like you or a bereaved parent, we really feel, or sibling, we really feel that child becomes part of us, don?t you think, Heidi?
H:?Um hm.? Absolutely, yeah.
G:?They become part
H:?Just to have Brandon?s clothes in your living room.
D:?And I have his picture here.? She sent me a picture because I wanted to know what he looked like and so I have it right here in the office and every name that we?ve ever engraved on a heart, we have those above our engraver because I just said I just can?t throw that away.? That?s a piece of that child.? And also to let you know that a little bit of what, when you said business, I said, well, let me just also explain that part of what we do is that part of the proceeds that we get from the wind chimes and the bears, we have a special memorial fund that was set up in Dakota?s name when he died because so many people helped us that we wanted to help others and so we have taken part of our business and we help those who.? We put tires on a mother’s car because her son has had cancer and through all of the treatments that he?s had, she needed new tires for her car.? Things like that that insurance doesn?t pay for.? That you may not always have that extra income.? So when you purchase something from us, you?re continuing on to help other people as well through our memorial fund.
G:?That?s great.
H:?That?s wonderful.
G:?So the things you have are wind chime, the bear, and
D:?Right now that?s ? we?ve limited ourselves to that to begin with because we just started our ? we started selling the products back in January a year ago so we?ve had this in our hearts forever since Dakota died but we finally decided to commit ourselves to our passion about two years ago in designing it and then actually setting up our website about a year go.
G:?Yeah, and the website is www.dakotawinds.org, and when you say we, we have the other we on the phone, I think.? Alan, are you there?
A:?Hello.
G:?Hi, how are you?? This is Alan Page, Beth Page?s husband, right, Beth?
B:?Absolutely, I hope it?s him.
G:?Well, Alan, we appreciate you calling in to the show.
A:?You?re welcome.
G:?And we, Heidi are I were thinking that we?d love to get a little dad?s perspective of how you?ve got to where you are and about Dakota, and as a guy, how you?ve dealt with it.
A:?All right.? Well, one thing I want to say about the wind chimes is what I really like about it is it?s a kind of spontaneous thing that what you miss when you lose someone close to you is that spontaneous when they?re walking through or running through the house or you hear them all of a sudden.? And that?s what the wind does.? You?re not thinking about them and then you hear the chime bring them to you.? It?s a spontaneous feeling.? It?s a great feeling.
H:?That?s a really good point.? It all of a sudden brings their memory in.
A:?Yeah, and when you least expect it, that?s when you hear it.? It?s just a slight ring or whatever.
G:?Now did you make the first wind chimes?
A:?The first one was a gargoyle because my little boy loved anything ugly.? He loved it.? Ninja turtles and all those things when he was a little boy.? He always used to dress up like them and he was always dressed up like some character every day and he would have been an actor for sure, I tell you.? He always made you laugh.? He was a great fellow.
G:?Now, do you get involved in actually producing the wind chimes?
A:?Now we designed it.? I?m the artist and I drew it up and then we got a wind chime company to actually create it for us.? And the other thing you all were talking about dealing with grief and dealing with guilt and all those fun things.? One way I always found that helped me.? The one thing that helped me when I was feeling really guilty and feeling bad was just to talk to Dakota and see what he?d say to me.? If Dakota was here he?d say, Dad, it?s not your fault, because you blame yourself for a lot of things.? We went to bone marrow and I really didn?t want to do it and I feel like that part of that took him away.
G:?Could you talk about that a little bit because there are dads who things happen and they didn?t feel like it should have happened.? Could you talk about that a little?
A:?Well, dads grieve a lot different than mothers or women and men are totally different.? We get more angry.? Definitely get angry.? I held onto that anger for a long time even though you know you didn?t see it in me that much but it was in there and it took a long time for it to finally get it out and for me to let it go.
G:?Now what kind of things were you angry about?? Just throw things out there.
A:?Well, he was supposed to go through a bone marrow transplant and he had no cancer at this time.? The doctors wanted to do it because they wanted to make sure that if they got anything else, it might be there, a seed because they thought the tumor had planted seeds down the spine, and I felt like he would do better without it but everybody else and my wife felt that it was all right and she usually has the better sense than I did, you know, just had a gut feeling, better gut feeling than I did.? So I went along with it.? But I?ve always.? I wanted to turn around when I was driving him to the hospital because he was doing so well.? He had been doing better than he had done the whole time and it was just hard to take a healthy child and put him through that where they lose their entire immune system.? And then after we did it, he made it through all that and then a month or so later, the tumor. He started.? One day he was out running around the yard with me.? He said dad I just want to run and he wouldn?t stop.? He ran I?d say for about an hour.? It?s getting dark and he?s still running around and he just knew something was going on.? And the next day, he couldn?t walk.? The tumor had gotten into his spine and he was becoming cripple and then we went of course and got him checked and we found out that he had like 13 tumors on his spine that had dropped and that there wasn?t anything we really could do.? We could have done radiation but we went for quality of life and took him home to let him enjoy the rest of his life.? And we were very honest with him.? We told him that he was going to die and he talked to us and said all right, I don?t want to talk about it any more and he was just a happy child until the day he died.? He was an amazing kid.
H:?So he had a wonderful quality of life at the end it sounds like and that was a hard decision.
A:?Yeah.?
H:?That?s great.
A:?And luckily we were able to keep him at home and be able to hold him and everything.? And that made it very special too.? But anybody that loses anybody always.? I don?t know how anybody cannot feel some type of guilt but I think the best thing is to put yourself in your child?s place or whoever have passed away and let them talk to you because they wouldn?t want you to feel that way.?
H:?So, Alan, when you were saying, I know you were talking a lot about how you were angry, and we hear that a lot with the men on our show, how it?s easier to be angry than in the pain that you?re in.? Anger is kind of the grief.? How were you able to let go of that anger and move forward?
A:?Well, it took about 8 years, like my wife said.? I mean, it wasn?t just happened.? Actually one time I finally let go was ? I?m a big outdoorsman.? I was duck hunting.? I was on a boat and then all of a sudden a big storm hit and it was like big seas and I was close to sinking the boat and life or death.? I just didn?t make it back.? It was kind of a like a Forest Gump moment when I was out there and it just all hit me.
G:?What hit you?? That life was worthwhile or what hit you?
A:?I guess that I wasn?t going to let God take me down.? You know, I?ve got anger at God, that?s for sure, and I feel like I?m a more spiritual person, not a religious person as much.? It?s hard to explain but I feel it very.? I lost my mother and she came back and I spoke to her in spirit.? So I feel that there?s very much a spiritual world out there.
G:?One thing that strikes me about your happening at sea, it was the wind again, wasn?t it?
A:?Oh, yeah, it was a lot of wind.? The waves were about 10 foot.? I was on a 14-foot boat and people around me that were out there duck hunting were thinking I was crazy.? I was a little bit crazy.? I guess I took chances sometimes when I shouldn?t have.? Maybe that was part of the anger.
H:?That?s one thing we hear from men, too, is that they sometimes take some chances.?
A:?Yeah, I remember lightning striking when we were on a picnic one time.? I said I dare you to hit me.? My kids go how dare you?? Every now and then they tease me.
G:?So you have that turnaround.? If you?ve got any advice for men out there, what would it be about loss?? I like the idea of talking to your child.? We hear a lot of people say, too, that they write letters to them and then maybe write an answer.
A:?When it first happened, I used to write to him and I used to write my thoughts down and that always helps.? It always helps to get it out some way.? And you know you can?t find very many people that you can talk to.? Especially men.? Nobody wants to hear about your lost child, but you can bring up their memory.? One of the best things you can say to a grieving parent or anybody.? You hear everything.? People say he?s with God now and all these other things.? All that does is make you angrier.? He?s in a better place.? That makes you angry.? The best thing to do is to ask them about that child.? If you didn?t know him, say what was he like?? What was his personality like?? Just let that person talk and listen.? And that?s what you need to do.? You need to let people talk because they don?t want to forget their child.? I shaved my head when Dakota went through bone marrow, and I still shave it today.? And every now and then, people will say why shave your head?? And I get to bring up Dakota.? It?s a way of keeping his memory alive right there.
G:?And how about Dylan and Skye?? How are you helping them remember him?
A:?Oh, they?re incredible kids, too.? Skye.? I think Dakota picked her out special and sent her straight to us.? She?s got a lot of the same spirit and imagination and she knows everything about Dakota because she watched the videos.? She knows him as well as any of us.
G:?And she?s nine, right?
A:?Yeah.
G:?And how about Dylan at 14?? Do you worry about him? because I know we?ve got some men out there thinking about their sons.
A:?Dylan doesn?t remember Dakota as well.? As a child when he was little, they were buddies.? They used to snuggle up to each other and I was a househusband for awhile so I got to watch all that fun stuff and they were really really close.? At three years old, you can?t remember a lot but he knows just like Skye through the movies and videos and we have pictures everywhere.
B:?We celebrate Dakota?s birthday every year.? He?s in some Christmas presents and his pictures are everywhere and it?s just part of who we are and, of course, we have also been involved with fundraisers through Relay For Life, our local Relay For Life, and we have talked with other people so they see that part of it, too.
G:?Yeah, let?s talk.? It?s time for us to go to break and when we come back, could you stay on with us Alan??
A:?Sure.
G:?When we come back, let?s talk about some of the things that you?ve been doing because I know you guys have been involved in some things to help others as well as your business, you have some other things going on.
H:?I?m your host Dr. Heidi, and I?m here today with my mom, Dr. Gloria, and Beth and Alan Page, talking about their journey through grief.? Beth and her husband Alan are the owners of Dakota Winds, a family-owned business that originated from grief and grew because of hope.? Welcome back to the show, Beth, Alan, and Gloria.
G:?So we were talking when we went to break, Alan was telling us a little bit about Dakota?s death from a dad?s point of view and we were talking a little bit about their business and how you can go on their website and you can order some bears.? You can order a wind chime, and all these things that they?ve done to help bereaved parents.? Dakota died what? 11 years ago, right?
B:?Um hm.? April 23, 1996.
G:?1996.
B:?One week before he turned five.
G:?Ah.
B:?And he said he would never be five and he was right.
G:?He said that?
B:?He said that.
G:?Oh, my goodness.
B:?Several times he said that he would never be five and that he would never go to school or ride a school bus, and he died exactly one week before he would have turned five.? And that also kind of gives me a sense of peace in thinking he knew in some way and that this was again, it was meant to be his life.? A short life, but it was meant to be his life and then we have to go on and make something out of that short life so that we can have some meaning and purpose behind it.
H:?Because it sounds like he had peace with the fact that his time on this earth was limited.
B:?Yes.? I think so.?
G:?Is that your feeling too, Alan?
A:?Oh, I think he knew that he was going to die somehow because when he said that he was at his grandma?s.? His grandma said soon you?ll be five and you?ll go to school.? And he said matter of fact, no, I?ll never go to school and I?ll never be five.? But he was a happy kid all his life.? He was just a good ole fellow.? He was an old soul.
G:?We used to have it on the show people died before their time and we cut that off because it?s not before their time.? That?s their life.?
A:?Right.
G:?That was his life and a wonderful life for you all and knowing him.
H:?And also if you love somebody, I don?t care if they?re 90.? They die before their time in your eyes because you?re sad for yourself because we miss people when they?re gone.
A:?Right.
G:?So I wanted to ask you, I know that you did your.? Both of you, the things you?re doing with the bears and the wind chimes and things to help others as you were helped it says on your website.? Now how were you helped?? What helped you?? You could both give us.? Each of you give us a little couple of things about what helped you.? Do you want to start Beth?
B:?Mainly it was just the support.? We have a strong family support.? I had college friends that I hadn?t seen in 20 years who flew in from all over when Dakota was in the hospital and came to his memorial service.? And also just the cards.? People gave money, like I say, with which we started our memorial fund.? Just being there.? Just the phone calls and remembering Dylan who was only 2 at the time or 6 months when Dakota was diagnosed.? Always remembering him and making him feel important I think was wonderful, too, because you don?t want just all the attention on the child who was sick or on the grieving parent.?
G:?Right, oh, that?s so great, isn?t it, Heidi, as a sibling?
H:?It?s really great because I was thinking most siblings say that they complain because they feel that they were overlooked and unacknowledged and it sounds like for Dylan that was not the case.?
B:?I surely hope.? I don?t think so.? But he may give you a different perspective about it.
G:?Maybe they respond a little bit more to younger kids than they do to teens, I don?t know.? That might be part of it.? Alan, what about you?? What did you find that people did that helped you?? Early on, those first year or two?
A:?Well a lot of things.? We went to the hospital some and gave things away to the kids that were sick.? Things like that helped me a lot just being able to give back.
G:?Isn?t that kind of a male kind of thing, too, that doing is more helpful than just talking?? We find a lot of males like to do something.? You?re an artist, right?
A:?Right.
G:?And did you draw things or did that stunt your artistic thoughts?
A:?I didn?t really do any art with Dakota.? I do have something in mind.? I?ve got some of his masks when he did radiation.? They put it over their face and it molds exactly to the face so it still has Dakota?s face in it.
G:?Oh, my goodness.
A:?And someday I want to do something with that.? I?ve got an idea for it but I haven?t done it yet.
G:?Very interesting.? Now did you guys do Compassionate Friends?? I notice you have it mentioned on your website.
B:?Um, again, we didn?t have a computer back then but I did get information from them, yes.? Dakota was treated at Duke Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina, and they had a wonderful bereavement program and we were ? since he was treated for 2-1/2 years, we were pretty close to a lot of the staff there and so we stayed in contact with them and found a lot of support from them as well.?
G:?Yeah, afterwards, they stayed in contact with you.? Was it
B:?For about a year, you get monthly or mailings and then I could also call.? The family support person at that time who gave us the ancient saying about the winds, when a soul dies, the winds will blow, that was Bebe
A:?That was in our service
B:?memorial service and we, in fact, I?m still in touch with her and involved with various programs with her right now even 11 years later.
G:?Now, Alan, did you find that supportive?? The hospital?? For some people I would think maybe they wouldn?t want to be involved with the hospital.? Maybe bring back bad memories, I don?t know.
A:?I have another friend who lost a child to cancer, too, at the same hospital, and he didn?t even want to go back.? But we didn?t have that bad an experience with the hospital as he did.? It depends on what kind of experience you have.
G:?Right.? Well, it?s time to close our show and it?s just been wonderful having you both on, and I know you help each other and the world so much with the things that you?re doing, don?t you think, Heid?
H:?Absolutely.? Thank you so much for being on.
B:?And thank you for all that you all are doing too to help
G:?Well, have a good day, and it?s time to close our show now and please stay tuned again next week when our guest will be Bud Welch and our topic will be From Rage to Reconciliation.? In April of 1995, Bud Welch?s 23-year-old daughter Julie Marie was killed in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.? This is a fascinating show of forgiveness.? This show is archived on www.thegriefblog.com as well as www.compassionatefriends.org website.? Please stay tuned again next Thursday at 9:00 Pacific 12:00 Eastern for more of Healing the Grieving Heart.? Thanks for listening.? I?m Dr. Gloria Horsley and
H:?Dr. Heidi Horsley.? Dakota is gone but not forgotten.? He lives on in your heart, your memories and in all the work that you do.? Thank you Beth and Alan.
A:?One more note if I can.? Next time the wind blows, just open your arms and you can hug your loved one.
G:?Ah, I love it.? Thank you.
H:?That?s wonderful Alan.?
A:?Bye bye.
H:?Thank you.