HEALING THE GRIEVING HEART
The World Lost a Hero, We Lost Our Brother: Sibling Survivors of September 11th
Host: Dr. Gloria Horsley
With guests: Lauren and Kerri Kiefer
June 29, 2006

G: Hello. I?m Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley. Each week, we welcome you to Healing the Grieving Heart, a show of hope and renewal for those who have suffered the loss of a child or a sibling. Well, Heidi, it?s very exciting this morning because it?s our first time that we?re going on land radio as well as the internet.
H: Yes, it is very exciting.
G: So we want to tell all of you folks that if you want to find out what stations we are on on land radio and how to get us on the internet, you can go to www.healingthegrievingheart.org and that?s our website, and also you can download this show on Ipod, and our show is archived there as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.org website so that you can look at it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you can hear our show. We?re live today so if you want to call in, please feel free. Our number is toll free, 866-472-5792 with questions or comments regarding the losses in your life. Well, Heidi, we want to start out this show today by talking about our emails. Just to let you know, we love to get your emails, and we?re happy to talk about issues that you might have on the losses in your life on email so please feel free to email us again through our website, www.healingthegrievingheart.org. Now, also, if you go to our website, we have a quote of the week from one of our guests. So our first email is from Jamie. And we also love you to give us where you?re located. I?m not sure where Jamie is, but anyway.
Your show is one of my lifelines since May 23, 2006, when my 21-year-old daughter passed away suddenly. It reassures me, helps me sleep, and teaches me. Thank you. I?ll write again, but for now, there?s a show Making Sense of Synchronicity with guest David Morrell who is a well-known author and she can?t get his link.
So, we got that fixed for you, Jamie, just to let you know, but we are so happy to hear that this show is reassuring you, helping you sleep, and teaching you. Isn?t that amazing, Heidi, to get an email like that from Jamie.
H: Absolutely, and I wanted to reiterate that again and just say as my mom has pointed out, the emails are so important because it links our audience with us and it lets us know and gives us information about what?s been helpful, what?s been healing, and what you?d like more of. So keep the emails coming and keep giving us feedback. It?s very appreciated.
G: Yes, it is. And we have a second email. This is a Joan from Walnut Creek. And she says:
Dear Dr. Horsley,
I was recently given a copy of your demonstration CD.
By the way, we have a demo CD. Four of our guests have been on. Heidi and I are on one of the segments. They?re seven-minute segments. It?s a free CD. If you email us through our website, we would be glad to send you one, but this is from Joan again from Walnut Creek, and she said:
My married daughter died of a brain tumor five years ago. I found your guests on your CD to be very helpful. However, strangely enough, I was most moved by your discussion of the sibling loss.
And that?s Heidi and I discuss that from one of our shows.
My brother died in an auto accident 20 years ago and as a 16-year-old sibling, I received no support. I was very moved to hear what Heidi had to say as a bereaved sibling. Thank you for giving siblings a voice. Joan from Walnut Creek.
Well, thank you, Joan. What a great email again. That was so great to get that information.
H: Absolutely, and I think Joan is really going to enjoy the show today because I know that Kerri and Lauren are going to have a lot of valuable information for siblings out there and for what we experience as siblings seem unacknowledged and overlooked oftentimes and feeling like we need to be strong for our parents and we need to help our parents get through the loss and sometimes putting ours on the back burner.
G: And oftentimes having friends and workers who work with parents say well, how are your parents doing?
H: Well, I remember. I was thinking back and I remember after Scott died, we got thousands of cards. I?ll never forget it, and my parents did. I got one card and I?ll never forget it. It was from someone I haven?t spoken to in years. Her name is Brigette Finnerty and her brother?s name was Scott also, and they gave me this card and it meant so much to me, and I remember keeping it and looking at it all the time because it was the only card I received.
G: Isn?t that incredible, and we had bags and bags and bags full of cards. It was unbelievable. Well, Heid, I?m excited about our show today, particularly since we got this note from Joan from Walnut Creek about siblings and may I say, I am so pleased that you?re my co-host on the show because it?s so important to get that sibling voice along with the parent.
H: Thanks, mom, I love working with you, too.
G: Okay, Heid, would you like to introduce our guests today.
H: I?d love to. Okay, our topic today is The World Lost a Hero, We Lost Our Brother: Sibling Survivors of September 11th, and our guests are Lauren and Kerri Kiefer. Lauren and Kerri Kiefer?s brother, Firefighter Michael Vernon Kiefer, died at the age of 25 in the September 11th World Trade Center attacks. Michael was the big brother everyone wanted. He always watched out for his sisters and was there when they needed him. Michael wanted to be a New York City fireman as long as anyone can remember. He was dedicated, motivated, and eager to be the best at everything he did. It was this determination that made Michael not just one of New York?s bravest and a hero, but the best big brother any sister could ever ask for. Welcome to the show, Lauren and Kerri.
L&K: Hi. Thank you. Thank you for having us.
G: It?s so great to have you on, Lauren and Kerri, and I?m excited about the show today, and may I first of all start the show by saying to you, I am so sorry about your loss of your sibling.
L&K: Thank you.
H: Just reading that as a bereaved sibling gave me chills.
G: Yeah, and gave me tears in my eyes, also.
K: Well, can we just start off, Heidi, by saying when you were talking about the cards, you got one more card than we received.
H: Wow, so you guys received nothing.
K: Nothing.
H: That?s amazing given all the support that 9/11 families got from the world. That is very interesting.
G: And isn?t it interesting, Heidi, that you got one. It?s just incredible. I?m sure, Lauren and Kerri, like me your parents received bags and bags of cards.
K: Yup.
G: And what did you do with all those cards? Did you help them write notes? That was a big question.
K: We did save them all. We just kept them in a big container and we just saved them. We didn?t really do anything with them.
L: Our parents wrote back to as many people as they could. After a while, it just got so overwhelming with the amount that they received.
G: It?s so wonderful to have two of you on to give those two sibling points of view. Well, could you tell us about the day from each of your point of view, and say, this is Kerri or this is Lauren, and tell us where you were and what happened about losing your brother?
K: This is Kerri and I was actually attending a college course at Nassau Community College. It was a math course, and I remember that the professor started off. We had about 20 minutes, and then 20 minutes into the class, he got called in by the head of the math department and was told that the twin towers were hit. I remember when he told the class what had happened, one of the girls in my class had passed out because her father worked there, but when he told me, it just never dawned on me. I knew my father worked in the city but I didn?t think how close he was
G: Now your dad?s a firefighter, too?
K: No, my dad just worked there. And it didn?t dawn on me that anything had happened to my brother because I didn?t realize how close Brooklyn was to Manhattan so it didn?t really affect me. I left school and I was upset about what had happened for other people but I just went along with my day as if nothing had happened to my family. As the day went on, Lauren had called me and said, ?Did you hear what happened? Have you heard from Daddy?? We were more concerned about my father because he only worked a block away from the Trade Center and we never in a million years thought my brother. And then as the day went on, it just became more and more of a nightmare because then we didn?t hear from my brother and finally, thank God, my father came home, and so that was basically it. Then the nightmare just unfolded as the night went on.
G: Well, it?s time for us to come on break now and we just heard Kerri Kiefer?s story about her brother being killed, about hearing, or we haven?t really heard about it, but about the experience around her brother who was lost in the World Trade Center, and we?re coming up on break. I?m your host, Dr. Gloria Horsley. Please stay tuned to hear more about sibling loss and losing a brother in 9/11 and when we come back from break, we?ll hear from Lauren Kiefer. Please join our show by calling our toll free number, 1-866-472-5792. If you?d like to email us about this or upcoming shows, you can reach Heidi or me through our website, www.healingthegrievingheart.org. These shows are archived on our website as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.org website. Please stay tuned for more.
Well, when we went to break, what a great thing it is to have two siblings on and with Heidi makes it three to hear that sibling voice of the losses that we have in our lives, and we just heard from Kerri Kiefer talking about her brother?s death in the World Trade Center and I said after we came back from break, we wanted to hear from Lauren and hear her story.
L: This is Lauren. My story is very similar to Kerri?s. I was also in class when I found out
G: Now were you in college?
L: Yes, when the World Trade Center had been hit and like Kerri, I didn?t think of Michael right away. I thought of my father who worked only a block away. I tried to call his office and I couldn?t get in touch with him. For some reason, I don?t know what made me do this, but I went to my mom?s job, she works in an elementary school, and I went there. I saw her and when I walked into her office, she immediately said to me, what do you know? She had already been crying and she hadn?t heard anything about Michael or about my dad. She had, I guess, the mother instinct that something was wrong and she then asked me to go home and check the answering machine to see if anybody had called, but she asked me to stop at church first and light a candle, which I did, and then I came home and my grandfather told me that he heard from my father and that he was going to call when he could get a train in or when he needed to be picked up or something, and then I called my sister. I couldn?t get in touch with her at first and then I didn?t know the number to Michael?s firehouse to call, but I still didn?t even really think about him until I picked up my dad at the train station and he got in the car and he first asked me, ?Did you hear from Michael.? I said, ?Michael?s in Brooklyn. He?s fine.? Like Kerri, I didn?t realize how close Michael?s firehouse in Brooklyn was to the Trade Center. They got there in I believe like nine minutes.
G: And the Brooklyn. Isn?t that the firehouse that you go to and then you graduate to New York if you?re a fireman?
L: No, I don?t think so.
H: Uh, uh. They don?t have that.
G: Okay, but Brooklyn is one of the, I know, important firehouses there. So in nine minutes he was over there. And then where were you as a family when you found out?
L: We were home in the house. Another fireman came, I believe it was maybe around 3:30 in the morning, and he had come and said that Michael?s company had been in the towers. I actually wasn?t in the house when he told my family. I saw his car turn down the block and I knew that he came for a reason and I knew the reason that he was there, but I just didn?t want to hear it because I honestly thought that when he told my parents that Michael was in there, I thought that I was going to lose my parents. I thought they were going to have a heart attack and die right there from the shock of everything so I didn?t want to be in there when he said it, but I know Kerri was in there when he told my parents the news.
G: So you weren?t there, Lauren, right?
L: No, I wasn?t.
H: So you knew on September 11th or 12th that he had died.
K: Just to interrupt, also, this is Kerri, on September 11th, that morning, Michael wasn?t supposed to be at work. He had worked the night before on the 10th and was supposed to be coming home that morning. So another part of all of us was thinking well, he?s not at work, but we also know that even if he didn?t go the Trade Center with work, we knew that, by all means, he?d try and make his way in there on his own. So we didn?t know really what had went on as far as did he go in there with his company? Did he just try and get in there alone? So that was also another question that we had.
G: And really believing that he was dead. You knew he was in there but you still didn?t know for sure, did you?
K: No, we didn?t.
G: So the unknown.
K: You know, that did make it harder at first but it also was, I?d rather go back to that day not knowing, than to now have it be confirmed.
H: Right. It can kind of let you go into that realization slowly. And also I was struck by what you said, Lauren, about how, and I think it really is true of siblings, how we?re really worried about our parents and how they?re going to react and, like you said, am I going to lose my parents physically now because they could have a heart attack? And it?s so scary. You?ve lost your brother and what?s going to happen to your parents now?
G: Yeah, and you?ve often said, Heidi, that you do lose the parents you knew.
H: Absolutely, yes, and I think Lauren brought that up. She spoke to my class, my grief and loss class at Columbia, and I think brought that up, too, how it?s a double loss oftentimes, right? We lose the parents we once knew because now we have grieving parents.
L: Right and my parents nothing is the same without Michael. Especially your parents. It?s a loss all around. It?s not just the loss of Michael. It?s the loss of everything else. You lose your childhood, part of your childhood that you had when you were with him. You lose part of your future because of all the things that you planned on doing with him.
K: It?s a whole new life. It?s like your body was just put into a whole new life with the same people. Just now it?s a different situation.
L: It?s like you?re in a foreign country now and you were just dropped there and now you have to learn to make yourself adapt to this new world and this new way of life and it?s not easy.
H: Right. So you lose the family you once knew, like you said, and that family is completely different now. It?s like the new normal that they?re talking about, and you have to figure out, okay, how do we go on and have this completely different family now? What is that going to look like and how does that work?
G: Do you think ? we were talking about the personal level. Being that this was a national event, do you think that that?s affected your grief as siblings?
K: I do just because you may be having somewhat of a good day, what?s considered a good day, and somehow in some way there?s something on the TV about 9/11. There?s something in the paper. Or you just come across someone you haven?t seen and they bring it up. Not even my brother because I love to talk about my brother. When I meet people or someone I haven?t seen in awhile, it?s almost like they?re standoffish and they don?t want to ask about Michael, and I could talk about him for hours but it?s just the fact of 9/11 and what happened that day and that seems to keep always coming up.
L: It?s funny because I just was talking to Kerri about this the other day that I feel sometimes almost that and as much as I do, I would do anything for my brother and I would talk about him all the time, but sometimes I just feel like I could have maybe five minutes of being normal where I didn?t have to think about that day or think about it because it?s always in your face. I went on a cruise about two years ago and I thought about Michael. I thought about him. Certain things I would see would make me think about him, but it was such a calm week because we weren?t in New York so it?s not in your face like it is all the time here so it felt.
G: Well, early on, there?s that yearning and searching, too. Did you look for him in crowds and things like that? I remember having a stiff neck from looking.
L: Yes.
H: Did you think you saw him at all? I remember thinking I saw Scott sometimes. It was just crazy because there was no way I could have seen him.
L: Yes. Oh, definitely, and we also would make up stories. Well, maybe he was down there and got hit and had some sort of amnesia and maybe he?s somewhere else and he doesn?t know where he is and he doesn?t remember us. We were like, oh, he?s probably just on a trip somewhere he didn?t tell us about. We would make up these stories to just try and believe that he?s not gone.
G: Does that mean you did not see a body?
K: No, we never had a recovery.
G: And no body parts or anything?
K: Nothing.
G: Any helmet or anything?
K: Nothing.
H: How does a 25 year old die in the prime of his life, in the prime of his health, die and vanish? How did it happen? You just can?t even believe it could happen.
L: It?s almost like, I think my dad was the one who said that he wanted to look at it this way, that he went there and then there was no trace of him being there. It was almost like, and I think my dad was the one who said it, that he just likes to think that maybe God just came and picked him up and brought him to heaven. It is hard. Like I said, we know he was down there but there?s nothing to prove that he was down there. It?s almost like they weren?t.
G: It?s difficult. It?s time for us to come up on break, and we?re talking to Lauren and Kerri Kiefer about their brother, Michael, who was murdered in the 9/11 attack. Well, Lauren and Kerri, as I said when we went to break, it?s so great to have you on the show and to hear those sibling voices, and I have received the book that you?ve done of your brother. It is absolutely fabulous. It says, Michael Kiefer, FDNY Firefighter, and there?s a picture of Michael sitting at the beach, he was the lifeguard with a whistle in his mouth, and what a handsome guy, and pictures of you guys, what beautiful girls you are, and your family, your parents, and his fianc?. So, Heidi, I think maybe we ought to do a show on fianc?s someday or significant others, too, because that?s quite a story in and of itself, I?m sure.
H: Absolutely. And what I love about this book is that Michael wrote such amazing letters to you both and to your parents and a lot of them have been saved and they?re in the book, and I felt like I really knew who Michael was after I read this. It?s not just a photo album. I felt like I knew who he was.
G: Yes. An amazing number of pictures and it?s really wonderful. I have to say that oftentimes when I have people on the show, you really hold the people they?ve lost in your heart when you see these things. They really become part of our family don?t they, Heidi?
H: Absolutely, and I just feel the love that Michael had for your family and that you had for him way before he died. The love is so obvious in this book.
G: And we even go to grandparents in it, and babies are in here. It?s just an amazing book. And what I was suggesting when we were on break, I was suggesting to Lauren and Kerri that they might want to look into Library of Life, who is one of our sponsors, and put this book, these pictures from this book and all these wonderful things that are written here on the internet so everybody can have access to it through Library of Life. They can do that for only $50 for a lifetime so you guys might want to think about doing that.
L: Yes, we definitely will.
G: But it?s a wonderful book and they may have a few copies that they?d part with if you want to email us through our website, www.healingthegrievingheart.org.
H: Well, I also love that the family carries the book around. If Michael?s name comes up or if someone is talking about him, you give them one of these memory books which is such an amazing continuing bond and an amazing way to say this is who he was, this is who he is in our lives. He?ll always be part of our lives.
G: And this is who we are as siblings and he?s one of us. Really wonderful. I wanted to ask you how your friends have reacted to the loss of Michael?
L: This is Lauren. It?s through something like this you really find out who your true friends are and I personally definitely have. There were a few friends I thought, that I?ve known forever my entire life and I was in their wedding and they were in mine, and you always think that they?re going to be there for you, but I haven?t spoken to them in maybe four years and it?s tough, and I understand that people may not understand what to say to somebody in my position but, you know what, the best thing sometimes is just to pick up the phone and just say, ?how?re you doing?? or ?I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you today? if you?re not into talking.
G: What about our folks out there that are like you that they?ve lost a sibling in the last couple of years, how can they deal with the pain of their friends not getting in touch with them just to know that it may happen. Do you have any advice or thoughts for them about it?
K: Just be open to the fact that don?t think that people who were there for you for everything else in your life are going to be there for this because it?s not. That may be an upset to them at first but don?t even waste your energy on it. Then they?re not your true friends and just to move on away from them and just build your life without them.
L: And unfortunately, you are going to lose friends through something like this. It?s sad to think about and horrible to say but you are. But I know even through losing a few friends here and there but we also have the wonderful support of friends of our family; April and her family are just absolutely wonderful to us and that completely makes up for anybody else who might have said the wrong thing or hasn?t been there or was never going to be there so sometimes all it takes is just that one person to make up for everybody.
G: So I think what you?re saying to our folks out there is it?s not about you. It?s about them.
L: Right. Yes.
H: And them not knowing what to say or do. I had one friend that said, Heidi, I have no idea what to say or what to do, and that was enough for me. I?m like, thank you, what do you say? There?s nothing to say. It?s horrific. It shouldn?t have happened. It?s horrible. Just to say that comforted me. That was enough.
L: And don?t feel that you have to go out of your way for them. I thought that in the beginning, too, well, maybe I should do this, and you know what, this is your time to be selfish because you?re the one that?s going through this horrible tragedy and if ever a time in your life there?s a time to be selfish, it?s now.
H: I had another question for both of you. A lot of parents are listening right now that want to help their kids through this process, kids that have lost a brother or a sister. What advice would you have for parents in helping their children get through this?
L: The parents are going through their own grief and I don?t know exactly what my parents are going through, but sometimes you have to realize that your kids are going through a double loss because they did lose their sibling and in a way they really did lose their parents and we are the forgotten mourners and things like that, and they just need to know that maybe take time out and just check in with them and say, are you all right? Do you need to talk about something? Is everything okay? Just check in with them and as hard as it may be because they are going through their own grief, but you do still need to check in with your kids and make sure. Reassure them that you are still there for them.
G: I know one of the things that I?ve heard kids talk about when we?ve done sibling things is that their parents are too afraid to have them go anywhere at first. They?re too controlling. We have to go to break now.
This is becoming a family event as we?ve got a caller on. I believe it?s the Kiefer?s mom and we?ll take her call and then when we get through that, we want to talk to Lauren and Kerri about how they?ve honored Michael. Hi, is Patricia there?
P: Yes, this is Patricia Kiefer. I am the proud mother of Michael Kiefer, and Lauren and Kerri Kiefer.
G: Oh, welcome to the show, Patricia.
P: Thank you. I know I?m usually sticking my nose where it shouldn?t be, but I just needed to call and let everybody know how so very proud I am, myself and my husband, of the beautiful daughters that we have and how they have honored their brother. They know how much their brother loved them and always will be with them. I?m just going to do this and say, Lauren and Kerri, your dad and mom are so proud of you and we love you very much. And that?s really all I wanted to say.
G: Oh, Patricia, thank you so much.
H: Wow, that?s wonderful.
P: Okay?
G: That?s great. Thank you for calling in. It?s wonderful.
L: That?s what the other kids need every once in a while.
H: That?s it. What your mother just did is what we need.
P: They get yelled at a lot, too, but that?s okay, but from our hearts I want them to know that their parents and their brother are so proud of how they?ve handled everything, and I know that the pain that they?re feeling has got to be just as bad as our?s, and I?m sorry for that to my girls, and I pray that they?ll have some happiness in their life someday. Okay?
H: Patricia, thank you so much because that is what siblings need to hear. That our pain is just as bad and just as hard. We?ve lost a brother and it?s horrible.
P: I know that. I?ve never walked in those shoes but I know how close my children were and it?s a piece of their heart went when their brother was gone, and I?m so sorry and I really wish I could fix it for them, but as we all know through grief, nobody can fix it. It?s just that hard, hard road that we all walk everyday and it?s a day at a time, a minute at a time, and I won?t cut in any more.
G: Well, Patricia, thank you for calling in, and as a bereaved mom, I?ll have to say this, and I think it probably happens to you. Don?t you see Michael in their faces sometimes?
P: Oh, yes, I do.
G: And it?s such a thrill.
P: Like I say, if any truth to what we all want to believe, I know he?s with them every moment. Give them a little crack when they?re doing things they shouldn?t and he?s so proud of them when they do what they should.
G: Well, thank you so much, and have a good day. Lauren and Kerri, we wanted to talk to you about how you?ve honored your brother and what you?ve done to remember him.
K: Since September 11, basically this is our new life that we were dealt and we have to basically what I do, and I?m sure Lauren, also, my life now is how can I honor my brother? How can I honor my brother? So what I?ve done is we have a walkathon in June that we put together in honor of him. We also have a dinner-dance fundraiser in honor of him in October, and all that money goes to a burn center that was set up in his name, a fund that helps burn victims. Also, on a personal note, I?ve finished all my college in honor of him. I got my Associates degree in honor of him, my Bachelor?s degree, and I?m now going for my Master?s degree in honor of my brother. That?s all thanks to him that I?m able to do that and everything I do now is in honor of him because I feel like if I?m not honoring him, there?s no point in doing it. I had no will to finish school so I had to think of a way that I would be able to have my mind in it and be able to do it and the only way was to say, ok, this is in honor of him. I?m doing it for him.
G: And so using the positive energy to move you in the directions. Wonderful.
H: And Lauren, what about you?
L: Basically the same as Kerri. We do the walkathon together as a family and his dinner-dance, and we put the book together as a family and the book is, I think, one of the best things that we?ve done because it is Michael. It?s him. We wouldn?t have been able to do that if Michael wasn?t the type of person that he is. It was easily put together.
H: And you spoke to my graduate students at Columbia and let them know, okay, these are the issues that are unique to sibling loss and these are the ways you can help bereaved siblings in your practice.
L: Even things like this like talking on your radio show and talking to your students, those are the ways we honor him, too, because, and I know I?ve said this to Heidi, that if I could talk about him for a living for the rest of my life, I?d be happy because I would know that people aren?t forgetting him and things like that.
H: And that?s what also people have to realize. We like talking about our brothers. It?s the way that they died that we get tired of. If someone came up to me and said tell me all about Scott. What was he like when he was living? You can talk about that forever. That makes us feel good.
G: It?s almost time for our show to close and I?m going to ask you guys a really quick thing. We?ve got some newly bereaved people out there, siblings. Do you have one piece of advice from each of you that you could give them.
L: Yes, to always honor their brother. To never have people to forget their brother. And to just remember that there are people that aren?t going to understand and you just need to wipe those people out of your life and if they have negative comments, just to walk away from the situation.
G: And take care of yourself, great.
K: Just take it one day at a time. Unfortunately, I?m not going to lie, it?s going to get harder. I think especially for younger siblings because you?re going to go through so much in life that your sibling should be there for and now they?re not. Just take it one day at a time and take care of yourself.
G: Ah, good. Lauren and Kerri, thank you so much for being on the show and representing such a wonderful sibling voice. You?re great gals and we?re sorry for all the trauma you?ve had. This show is archived on our website, www.healingthegrievingheart.org, as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.org website. It can also be heard on selected radio stations. This is Dr. Gloria Horsley and
H: Dr. Heidi Horsley. Until next week, thank you, again, Lauren and Kerri. Michael will never be forgotten.
L&K: Thank you.

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